Routing enemy units

[rolypoly]

How long the enemy units are knocked down after getting a bloody nose and get the status "routed"? Could they deliver a counter-attack next turn?

If they rout to same direction to where u are attacking, does it do more harm to them if they have to relocate before your troops?

How bout the case when shattered?

thx for patience and answers as well.

[2ndACR]

Some can come back next turn, some take longer. Sort of random.

Shattered have to rebuild, so they take longer.

Sort of vague, but I play German, so cannot answer how fast a Russian comes back.

[rolypoly]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Some can come back next turn, some take longer. Sort of random.

Shattered have to rebuild, so they take longer.

Sort of vague, but I play German, so cannot answer how fast a Russian comes back.

Me too -I mean Im playing as Axis too. Im pondering the choice between routing or encircling the enemy when trying a breakthrough. Since the encircelment is not ´valid´ during the same turn, i believe breaking the enemy lines with frontal attack including heavy air support might just be the right thing to do. Both are costly for mp:s and I need enough units to fill that gap now and not in next turn.

Im talking about a situation where u need every regiment of a pz korps, and sparing them as much as u can and no regular infantry doing the punch.

[heliodorus04]

Having played a few Road-to scenarios as Soviet, I'd ball-park it that a unit has about a 33 percent chance of escaping route the following turn, and it probably doubles or more the turn after that (I don't think I've seen many routed units stay that way for more than the turn after they are Routed).

To me, it is better not to force Displacement moves on routed units in the early game (the only scenarios I have played). Yes, it causes casualties, but it also gives the Soviet unit a 'free' move Eastward, and in the early game, you want to prevent the Soviets from getting these 'bonus' moves east.

Let's talk about isolation for a moment:
If you create a pocket on turn 1, units are not isolated until Turn 2, as you state.
But if you attack during turn 1 after closing the pocket, units can still be routed OUT of the pocket. However, they won't route outside the pocket on Turn 2 - they're stuck there, and will be forced to surrender/shatter (not even sure Shatter is a possible result when isolated). So attacking units on turn 1 that will be isolated on turn 2 is, generally speaking, a bad idea.

Similarly, routed units exert no ZOC, and so auto-movement doesn't take adjacency to routed units into consideration. From the automated movement perspective, it simply treats hexes occupied by routed units, airbases, or HQs as empty hexes and it will move right next to them without strategic consideration of the consequence. So sometimes it is far better to move your units in small chunks, trying to find alternate paths around routed units for the same or similar costs, strictly so you can encircle these units.

See this example:



I had to control my moves around the red-circled, routed units (and an HQ) to avoid forcing them to displace east. On Turn 2, they were encircled.

There are tradeoffs. Sometimes moving next to an isolated unit gets you the hex you need (across a river, into favorable terrain, or creating a pocket in and of itself for other units. Sometimes it has to be done. It does cause further casualties, at least.

But it's always something to think about: do I want to displace these routed units...

[rolypoly]

nvrmind

[2ndACR]

When speed is of the essence, route them away. 1st turn is an example, remember, each time they route, at least they take further losses etc.

When speed is not a priority, surround them.

[rolypoly]

thx for the replies. lets just hope a total rout for the soviets when my 3rd panzer army delivers the hit.

[Q-Ball]

To me, the answer is "it depends". I personally think Unit/Manpower destruction is about the highest Axis priority, so isolating a unit is better for that. Rout it, and most of the troops will live to fight another day.

That Turn 1 example, you do want to isolate them, but don't go out of your way to do that. Panzers can outrun them anyway, eventually you will isolate them.

Oh, and I would make sure to take Riga in Turn-1 AGN

[rolypoly]

3rd panzer army can deliver a huge hit to the soviet lines in operation typhoon, but the 1st turn only includes 2 panzer corps -u can make a gap but not back it up with rest of the panzer army nor the rest of the army group center. These are barely adequate and imo soviets should have some restrictions also to the 1st turn.

Now when I launch my offensive towards bryansk-orel, the human opponent will have time to react to this since I cant move the rest of my units..... So the point was to figure out a way to plow the punch with minimum cost.

I managed to reduce 900k (edit, 900k at the end of turn 3) soviet manpower aganist the Ai but I doubt that it´ll work in PBEM aganist an opponent with sufficent knowledge of blitzkrieg tactics.

[rolypoly]

this would be a pretty good time to correct my mistake - i meant guderian´s southern wing - 2nd pz gruppe, not the 3rd.

[2ndACR]

That's okay......just remember that it is an entire different ball game against a human. Way different.