Warships of the World

rockymtndoc · Post by **rockymtndoc** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:28 pm

A propellor? Sounds like ritual circumcision to me.

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 4:49 am

The Brits took the two 8" guns out of the first turret before turning the Eugen over to us.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 7:19 am

New Jersey fired on Lebanon as did, I think, Iowa.

The General Belgrano was sunk in the Falklands War by Submarine Attack.

It is doubtful that anyone on the Prinz Eugen would have escaped serious injury or death, but the survival of the PE bore testimony to good old fashioned German engineering.

And not all of the German battlecruisers survived Jutland. The Derfflinger was sunk and Seydlitz returned to port with decks awash. The German ships were better built though because their priorities were different. The German ships were not designed to spend much time at sea so they did not have much in the way of crew accomodations or berthings. The weight saved allowed the Germans to put more armor into their designs.

The Arizona was not destroyed by a small bomb from a dive bomber. She was destroyed by high level bombers dropping converted 15 and 16 inch armor piercing projectiles, one of which penetrated into her magazine storing powder charges for her aircraft catapults which detonated. The explosion then in turn set off her forward main magazine, destroying the ship.

The Americans took another two 8 inchers off of PE for study. My grandfather was asked to sail with the PE to Bikini Atoll, but he declined as he would have had to re-up for another 2 years.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 7:24 am

www.history.navy.mil

This is a good one too. LOTS of pictures.

rockymtndoc · Post by **rockymtndoc** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:50 am

Thank you, showboat. That was enlightening.

Too bad your father wopuld have had to re-up - his story afterwards would have been even more interesting.

chief · Post by **chief** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:58 am

Adding to showboats' account of non-creature comforts aboard the PE (and some other German ships) the PE had no bulkhead hatches (fore or aft, port to starboard) in order for a crewmen to get from one side of the ship to the other (below the main deck) he had to climb UP to the main deck and cross to the side he wanted and go down to the level desired. A similiar experience was required when going fore to aft and vice versa. This structural inovation prevented adjacent compartments to flood as easily as US, UK etc ships. Even with watertight doors on our vessels they could warp and leak through the bulkhead accesses (doors to Army and Marines). By having hatches only in the top of compartments, the Germans, could climb up and hopefully beat the water to the top of the compartment and seal the hatch(s).
It took them longer to get to battle stations in an emergency but the system worked. I believe the Graf Spee was configure that way also.
PS: got to see the Prince Eugen, from the air, in 1957 during one of the tests, belly up on an atoll near Eniwetok. Its a sad shame to see a ship of any nationality in that position. Just a little more info for the fodder mill.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:07 pm

Originally posted by rockymtndoc
Thank you, showboat. That was enlightening.

Too bad your father wopuld have had to re-up - his story afterwards would have been even more interesting.

After all that radiation exposure I might not have been around to make these posts.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:13 pm

I wish someone would go down and locate the rest of the IJN carriers off of Midway. I heard a company found some debris off of the Kaga but never heard anything else about it. Info anyone?

Be nice if someone would locate the Lexington down in the Coral Sea.

Wasn't someone leading an expedition to recover debris from the Yamato a few years back?

The US has done the best at preserving historic ships, particularly from the World War II generation. I think it just shows our nature to hate to throw anything away.

Not alot left over from the World War I generation though, the Texas and that's about it.

rockymtndoc · Post by **rockymtndoc** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:31 pm

YAMATO was located, dived on and mapped many years ago.

When Ballard found TITANIC, I wrote him and suggested he try some day to locate the SHINANO, Japan's super carrier built on a YAMATO class hull. It fits all his criteria, huge, 'unsinkable', sunk on it's maiden voyage and sunk under circumstances that shouldn't have managed to do so. Sucker is pretty deep, though. However, that gold hunter located and surveyed a Japanese sub in something like 19,000 feet of water, so it gets more and more possible each day.

Also be interesting to see the remains of the third ship of that class, the MUSHASHI.

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:32 pm

Originally posted by showboat1
Wasn't someone leading an expedition to recover debris from the Yamato a few years back?

Yes, the Japanese found the Yamato and made several exploratory dives on the wreck. Unfortunately timing wasn't on their side. They found the ship a scant week before Ballard found the Titanic.

rockymtndoc · Post by **rockymtndoc** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:33 pm

I knew Ballard didn't find it. There was no National Geographic special and no coffee table book for sale.

Sgt.Striker · Post by **Sgt.Striker** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 7:46 am

Anyone found Prince of Wales and Repulse?

jnier · Post by **jnier** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 10:39 pm

Originally posted by Kraut

Aegis is in size between a destroyer and a cruiser, a weapons plattform with very advanced sensor arrays.

The Cruiser versus destroyer designation in the USN has always confused me.

The Ticonderoga class CGN and Spruance class DDs are identical in size (both being similar to a WW2 cruisers). Why is one classified as a destroyer and one a cruiser?

In fact, I don't think there is any currently active major US surface warship has dimensions similar to a ww2 destroyer.

Kraut · Post by **Kraut** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 11:02 pm

The Spruance class is fitted for launching cruise missiles, so it's designation as a cruised could be justified as it being similar to an oldfashioned missile cruiser.

Warships are by now all weapons-plattforms anyway, so differences in size are less important than before, except with carriers.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:19 pm

The Spruance tincans are destroyers because their primary role was, and I believe still is, anti-submarine. Since they are sub hunters they are destroyers. Aegis cruisers are "long shooters" designed to screen carriers against missile attacks from aircraft or surface ships, hence cruisers. However, what about the Arleigh Burke class which can fulfill both roles in a somewhat diminished capacity? I know they are classed as guided missile destroyers, DDG's, but maybe the title of destroying-cruiser, DDCG, would be more appropriate.

Kraut · Post by **Kraut** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:21 pm

Originally posted by showboat1
The Spruance tincans are destroyers because their primary role was, and I believe still is, anti-submarine. Since they are sub hunters they are destroyers. Aegis cruisers are "long shooters" designed to screen carriers against missile attacks from aircraft or surface ships, hence cruisers. However, what about the Arleigh Burke class which can fulfill both roles in a somewhat diminished capacity? I know they are classed as guided missile destroyers, DDG's, but maybe the title of destroying-cruiser, DDCG, would be more appropriate.

These classifications really are arbitrary.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:54 pm

And it used to be so simple, just check out the size of the main battery and thickness of the armor. Back in the good old days.

showboat1 · Post by **showboat1** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:14 am

Does anyone have any good sites or info on the Yamato recovery effort. Info is scant and I haven't found much on the subject. Found this one site and that is it.

http://www.tulloch.net/work/rmstitanic/yamato/index.htm

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:08 am

At one time I did find pics of a model of the wreck of the Yamato but have since lost the link and can no longer find it.

A Google search shows a lot (and I mean a lot!) of StarBlazer websites. Though it was a good anima series, I would rather see pics of the Yamato!

Noodleboy · Post by **Noodleboy** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:33 pm

Originally posted by Sgt.Striker
Anyone found Prince of Wales and Repulse?

I think they've both but only the Prince of Wales' Bell has been returned to the Admiralty. There's quite a bit of concern about thieving b'stds and scavengers looting from these War Graves.

At the time of the Falklands, one of my mates (told me this years later) was trained up on the old Kelly Class Destroyers they had mothballed because the RN were losing so many ships. I wonder how the Russians viewed that?

Warships of the World

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