I should preface this by saying I should not come home for the pub and start messing around, because it only leads to trouble.
I have just reached the June 1942 turns in my trial game as Soviets vs the AI. Am forming infantry corps, when I noticed through a moderate beer induced fog (hope to do better tomorrow night with a little company, though that is a scene no one wants to contemplate on this forum) that when I convert a stack of three infantry divisions to a soviet corps, if there is a difference in attachments, the formed corps will assume the identity of the top most unit, regardless of the other three. For example, lets say I want to move this corps to the 4th Shock Army, for a good reason or no real reason. I could convert from the corps and pay 15 AP's-half if I pass command checks?
Correction, at to cost of ZERO Ap's. Then I transfer ONLY the top division, in this case the 22nd Guards to the 4th Shock Army (or any other command). This costs ONE Ap.
Then I rebuild the corps, which cost ZERO AP's with the original three division. Now the corps is transferred, at the cost of ONE AP and I did not move it any, just three easy steps.
Now, if this was the devs intention, I am ok with it. Otherwise, I will wake up tomorrow wondering where the heck I came up with this and why I am still up posting it.
Yes, this is kind of things are possible. Just not sure what would be the best solution for this kind of things. One of them would be to restrict corps formation for the units with different HHQ, but still the AP cost of breaking down and switching them one by one could be much lower. So, no HHQ switch for the division from the rifle corps..
Maybe AP's are not the key, why not freeze any transferred unit for one turn, but have it cost nothing?
Grigsby and crew tend to like the AP mechanisms to massage their models. Note, the Civil War had limited leader activations which I thought were just crazy. It detracted from an otherwise enjoyable game.
That said, I like the concept of command limitations, just think this implementation will lead to players coming up with exploits, as this certainly is one. My thinking, from my limited knowledge of Eastern Front WW2, is that supply should be the key. It certainly limited the Germans in 1941 and from 1943 on Soviet advances were predicated on moving supply dumps (and rail lines) forward and vehicle stock. BTW, I really like the focus the game engine puts on vehicle pools. No Soviet era author would ever admitted to this, but there is no way the Red Army could have conducted its advance to Germany without American lend-lease trucks. Supply seems to be abstracted out to much, though this is my opinion. Ah, the pains of being a developer, everyone is a critic....
No Soviet era author would ever admitted to this, but there is no way the Red Army could have conducted its advance to Germany without American lend-lease trucks.
That's not quite correct in both ways. Even some Soviet leader (ex. Mikoyan, Kaganovich) were saying that LL was very important. From other side, before mid-1944 LL vehicles were absolute minority (I was posting details on main forum).
As for non-AP solution, not sure it would be possible right now, but I understand what you mean.
Just in case someone stumbles upon this post, the exploit mentioned was closed quite nicely with the 1.03 Beta patches. So if you see this and want to give it a try, you will be wasting your time.
This is a test run game. I have been experimenting with ground combat quite a bit, but have left everything else pretty much alone. No focus on air. No focus on partisans. I set German moral and logistics to 110 hoping for a good game. I wanted to play around with AP's so I gave the Soviets 200, or double.
Findings:
I like the AI setting for the Germans. They came on real strong and with the logistic/moral bonus were almost impossible to stop for two months. If a Soviet player wants an interesting game, set the Germans to 110 in logistic/moral. You will be on you toes for a while, and wondering if you can ever stop them.
The Axis AI has a problem, big problem, with what I call the "bridge to nowhere." If you leave a gap in your lines, they will flood though even into an impossible logistic situation. I did this in passing, thinking there was no way the Axis would try to exploit. It was October 1941, and it pushed 15 divisions south of Lake Ilmen toward Cherepovets. They were all cut off and destroyed during the mud/winter turns.
I was massing all my divisions near Moscow. I thought they needed to be near Stavka to maximize their refit. So, all of the strategic reserve for the Soviet Union is in and around Moscow. I would then form armies from the divisions and move them toward the front. I do not think this is optimal, but still playing around with the concept. The extra AP accelerated the formation of infantry corps and I fitted out six full tank armies in early 1943. I also created too many mechanized corps, and this limited my motor pool, along with a bug, and slowed the advance. I did not need the extra AP really, and have been building artillery lately. This should be done ASAP as the Soviet player. A couple of the "breakthrough" artillery divisions attached to an army are deadly.
The game currently is in September 1943. The Soviets have knocked Romania out of the war and are advancing toward the Hungarian border. The south is at Tarnapol, the north I have left dormant near Leningrad and the center has pretty much destroyed the German army. The Red Army has advanced on a Minsk - Vilinus axis and should make Riga before mud sets in. The winter campaign will then move through Poland while anything left in the north will be destroyed.
I must congratulate the developers. Even at this early stage, not even two months after release, the game has been rock solid and fascinating to play. I am no expert, but you really get the feel of the campaign and focus on historically important factors. As a Soviet player, the first thing I do every turn is advance my NKPS and fret over the distance from my rail head to HQ's. The pace of advance is limited, quite naturally, by the advance of my rail line. The lines of advance are also predicated by the ability to supply the spearheads. You are forced to build infantry corps and the tank armies and then must decide how many will be north/south of the marshes and should one be in reserve, just in case.
I have run into a couple of bugs/issues. I have posted them, and the devs actually look at, and act to correct the issues. Witness this thread. They have always been polite and helpful to me and others. Thank you.
Looking ahead, issues that are being debated so energetically now, will be sorted out. In a couple of months, the game will stronger. Over the next year, additional support will improve the game still further. I am waiting for the next beta patch, and will probably start a new campaign.
I did not really want to do an analysis of this game, but apparently I have done so. Thanks for your attention.
This is a test run game. I have been experimenting with ground combat quite a bit, but have left everything else pretty much alone. No focus on air. No focus on partisans. I set German moral and logistics to 110 hoping for a good game. I wanted to play around with AP's so I gave the Soviets 200, or double.
Finding
Looking ahead, issues that are being debated so energetically now, will be sorted out. In a couple of months, the game will stronger. Over the next year, additional support will improve the game still further. I am waiting for the next beta patch, and will probably start a new campaign.
I did not really want to do an analysis of this game, but apparently I have done so. Thanks for your attention.
First let me say that i did not nor have I ever posted any comments that were meant to be negative. Without players like yourself who dedicate long hours to doing what you are the game would not make it to a finished state in a year. Many of us send in requests about wanting this or that or whatever but it takes a special kind of person to do what your doing and I congratulate you and thank you for your hard work.
I am taking a totally different approach to this game in that I installed it ran a few computer vs. computer turns and I keep it updated but do not play it. I am currently reading (and sometimes rereading) the E manual and when finished will play the tutorial and the short games then I figure by that time the game will be in a much more stable and playable state.
it would not get there if it were not for the dedicated developers, Gary Grigsby, and the members of this forum that are willing to test and find bugs and do the real work. So to all of you I say Thanks and keep up the good work and it will happen because we love this company and it is the only one of its kind that works the way it does.
Madgamer2
If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem
I took nothing from your post as negative, any annoyance was with myself. You asked a reasonable question that only required a short, to the point, answer from me. Mine drifted off into a small book. The older you get........
Redmarkus,
I agree, Berlin is possible against the AI in 1943. The growth of the Red Army has been stunning over the last 18 months. I have built up 6 Tank Armies and a massive infantry / artillery force. As of October 1943, I have 4 MILLION manpower in the production pool that I have not deployed. Once you start to attrition the German infantry, you can punch their lines at will.
In the next patch, they are going to reduce the manpower multiple for the Soviets and double the AP cost to form infantry corps. I will probably restart a new game then, as this one is now just:
Punch massive holes in the front;
Exploit with armor;
Encircle and destroy anything in your path;
Move up the rail heads;
Repeat.
1941 and 1942 were a lot of fun though, and this is against the AI. The AI has problems, but, even at this early stage, it is by far the best I have seen in a game of this complexity. The Devs seem intent on improving it as they go, so in six months it will only get stronger.
I took nothing from your post as negative, any annoyance was with myself. You asked a reasonable question that only required a short, to the point, answer from me. Mine drifted off into a small book. The older you get........
Redmarkus,
I agree, Berlin is possible against the AI in 1943. The growth of the Red Army has been stunning over the last 18 months. I have built up 6 Tank Armies and a massive infantry / artillery force. As of October 1943, I have 4 MILLION manpower in the production pool that I have not deployed. Once you start to attrition the German infantry, you can punch their lines at will.
In the next patch, they are going to reduce the manpower multiple for the Soviets and double the AP cost to form infantry corps. I will probably restart a new game then, as this one is now just:
Punch massive holes in the front;
Exploit with armor;
Encircle and destroy anything in your path;
Move up the rail heads;
Repeat.
I think you have read that I am not actually playing the game but keeping it patched and reading the manual......and reading the manual......and in my spare time ...reading the manual. When finished I will play the tutorial and a couple of shorter games and in 6 months the big one. BTW it has been said that the AI plays the Russian better than it does the Axis but I do not know this as I have not played the game.
well back to .....you guessed it reading the manual. I have a small learning problem haveing to do with absorbing and being able to recall what I have read due to something that happened to me way back in 1st. grade. If I read something enough times I xcan recall it but the thing is some stuff I remember the first time through and other stuff....well go bqack and read it again (SIGH) and being old (70) can cause problems but staying active is they way one stays alive at my age.
I will follow your posts in the future with interest and I don't mind the small books I tend to be a bit long winded myself
Madgamer2
If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem
I have found another AP Points exploit in Version 1.03 Beta 2, but I don't want to post it on the forum. Please provide me with an email address and I'll send you the steps to reproduce.
I have found another AP Points exploit in Version 1.03 Beta 2, but I don't want to post it on the forum. Please provide me with an email address and I'll send you the steps to reproduce.
