It seems like the Soviet army has ceased to be a coherent fighting force. What does the total strength comparison look like?
You last posted it 2 pages or so ago, when it was 3.5 million Germans vs 7 Million Soviets. Since then you've caused about 3.3 million casualties, while losing about 400 thousand of your own. With the new pockets you've made, the Soviet army's back should be broken.
AAR Gr v SU 41 - 45. FINISHED: Gr Decisive Victory
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
DTurtle, I think you are right. In fact I know you are. I'll write up a summary of the events of the summer of '43. Surfice it to say, they out stripped the campaign of '41.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Turn 114
AGN: Busted NE. Pockets are being liquidated and the infantry is advancing fast. One rail line to cut and the northern wing of the SU army is going no where.
AGC & AGS: The front line ceases to exist. It is completely fluid. Many SU units are cut off and out of supply. Follow on infantry are removing them from play. The SU air force has been scattered allowing for aerial resupply to occur with impunity.
I am calling this game to an end.
The summer campaign was a smashing success. The stats to date:
Turn 100_______________________Turn 116________________Difference
Axis losses____________________Axis losses
Men: 2,655,082_________________Men: 3,114,227__________459,145
Guns: 34,752___________________Guns: 44,287____________9,535
AFV: 5,426____________________AFV: 7,511______________2,085
Soviet losses___________________Soviet Losses
Men: 9,823,815_________________Men: 13,625,929__________3,802,114
Guns: 153,075__________________Guns: 233,918____________80,843
AFV: 40,336___________________AFV: 50,461______________10,125
POST GAME SUMMARY
Reasons for calling it:
3.8 million men removed from play. That is a total of 518 units removed from the game. The AI cannot build any semblance of a front line anywhere. What units are put forth are surrounded, put out of supply and overrun. Rare do I need to do a deliberate attack. And yet the AI continues to do its futile attacks at astronomical odds. For example, the defensive line I created to screen the Crimea, there are two level 5 forts and one level 4. the defensive CV is over 100 for each. It continues to attack. One attack saw over 10k Soviet causalities for less than 100 defenders. The defenders where all Romanian.
AGN: Busted NE. Pockets are being liquidated and the infantry is advancing fast. One rail line to cut and the northern wing of the SU army is going no where.
AGC & AGS: The front line ceases to exist. It is completely fluid. Many SU units are cut off and out of supply. Follow on infantry are removing them from play. The SU air force has been scattered allowing for aerial resupply to occur with impunity.
I am calling this game to an end.
The summer campaign was a smashing success. The stats to date:
Turn 100_______________________Turn 116________________Difference
Axis losses____________________Axis losses
Men: 2,655,082_________________Men: 3,114,227__________459,145
Guns: 34,752___________________Guns: 44,287____________9,535
AFV: 5,426____________________AFV: 7,511______________2,085
Soviet losses___________________Soviet Losses
Men: 9,823,815_________________Men: 13,625,929__________3,802,114
Guns: 153,075__________________Guns: 233,918____________80,843
AFV: 40,336___________________AFV: 50,461______________10,125
POST GAME SUMMARY
Reasons for calling it:
3.8 million men removed from play. That is a total of 518 units removed from the game. The AI cannot build any semblance of a front line anywhere. What units are put forth are surrounded, put out of supply and overrun. Rare do I need to do a deliberate attack. And yet the AI continues to do its futile attacks at astronomical odds. For example, the defensive line I created to screen the Crimea, there are two level 5 forts and one level 4. the defensive CV is over 100 for each. It continues to attack. One attack saw over 10k Soviet causalities for less than 100 defenders. The defenders where all Romanian.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Review of the scenario:
The '41 campaign was average. The only highlight was bring in the Finns and taking Leningrad. I was pleased with this because the additional infantry (and the Finns in particular) was going to help the blizzard defence immensely.
I believe I fared reasonably well with regards to Soviet attacks during the first winter. It was of course the elements that decimated the ranks. The withdraw along the entire front was an effective strategy especially when you consider that I gave up tank country.
The summer of '42 was a shock in more ways than one. First was the AI's ability to use recon to determine where the build ups occur and shift forces to meet it. I was quiet pleased with is. It made me plan for major assaults in such a way that forces were spread out but in striking range.
The second shock was the shear size of the Soviet army. It was massive. When my main attack (OKH Assault) I could not believe the number of forts and layers of units. The AI avoided stacking units and used a carpet approach much like Kursk in '43 (historical). I was pleased that after many weeks of hitting my head against the wall I was able to free my panzers.
The final shock of the summer of '42 was the AI's refusal to withdraw from the north when it was perfectly clear and encirclement was occurring. In other other areas I have seen the AI pull back immediately. But here the AI stuck to the Finns as if they were a magnet. It was a crushing victory as every unit was removed from play.
I felt that this loss of Soviet power might lead to a more exciting defensive game for me. The Soviets were still very strong but could no longer provide such an effective defence in depth.
The winter of '42 was very strange. I knew I would defend much better since there would be no adverse effects ('41 blizzard) but I still decided to sit tight throughout the entire winter months. Everything was in refit. I made my own forts in depth to withdraw into as the Soviet winter offensive got underway. As it turned out, my front lines held strong and I saw that Crazy Uncle Joe was loosing his mind. The AI attacked every turn as if it were the winter of '41. In all the AI lost of 2 million men.
The follow spring my offensive began early. Mud did not concern me since my rail lines end at the front line. Breaking through was remarkable easy and once behind the lines I found nothing. I was able to push where ever I wanted. Bottom line, the AI had bled itself dry the previous winter. It simply could not defend anywhere. The result? Almost 4 million causalities with September still to come.
Crazy Uncle Joe snatched defeat from the jaws of victory as result of the AI's bizarre '42 winter offensive. BigA suggested that then was the time to increase the difficulty setting. I understand why but it should be that way. I have the saved game turn from the autumn of '42. I think I'll replay it but have both sides human controlled. I'll simply end turn turn for both side, moving nothing, until March of '43 then put the AI back in charge. That might be interesting.
I have enjoyed this GC. I have learned a great deal. Many of you will have seen many bad moves and some not so bad. It is interesting how different our styles change when we play the AI versus a person. That said, I believe the AI did a pretty good job. I have already been plotting my next strategy. This AAR has been fun to do. Thanks for reading it and I hope you have enjoyed it.
Fake edit: I have continued the game. I wish to see how far I get before mud hits. Once things slow down I'll post the out come.
The '41 campaign was average. The only highlight was bring in the Finns and taking Leningrad. I was pleased with this because the additional infantry (and the Finns in particular) was going to help the blizzard defence immensely.
I believe I fared reasonably well with regards to Soviet attacks during the first winter. It was of course the elements that decimated the ranks. The withdraw along the entire front was an effective strategy especially when you consider that I gave up tank country.
The summer of '42 was a shock in more ways than one. First was the AI's ability to use recon to determine where the build ups occur and shift forces to meet it. I was quiet pleased with is. It made me plan for major assaults in such a way that forces were spread out but in striking range.
The second shock was the shear size of the Soviet army. It was massive. When my main attack (OKH Assault) I could not believe the number of forts and layers of units. The AI avoided stacking units and used a carpet approach much like Kursk in '43 (historical). I was pleased that after many weeks of hitting my head against the wall I was able to free my panzers.
The final shock of the summer of '42 was the AI's refusal to withdraw from the north when it was perfectly clear and encirclement was occurring. In other other areas I have seen the AI pull back immediately. But here the AI stuck to the Finns as if they were a magnet. It was a crushing victory as every unit was removed from play.
I felt that this loss of Soviet power might lead to a more exciting defensive game for me. The Soviets were still very strong but could no longer provide such an effective defence in depth.
The winter of '42 was very strange. I knew I would defend much better since there would be no adverse effects ('41 blizzard) but I still decided to sit tight throughout the entire winter months. Everything was in refit. I made my own forts in depth to withdraw into as the Soviet winter offensive got underway. As it turned out, my front lines held strong and I saw that Crazy Uncle Joe was loosing his mind. The AI attacked every turn as if it were the winter of '41. In all the AI lost of 2 million men.
The follow spring my offensive began early. Mud did not concern me since my rail lines end at the front line. Breaking through was remarkable easy and once behind the lines I found nothing. I was able to push where ever I wanted. Bottom line, the AI had bled itself dry the previous winter. It simply could not defend anywhere. The result? Almost 4 million causalities with September still to come.
Crazy Uncle Joe snatched defeat from the jaws of victory as result of the AI's bizarre '42 winter offensive. BigA suggested that then was the time to increase the difficulty setting. I understand why but it should be that way. I have the saved game turn from the autumn of '42. I think I'll replay it but have both sides human controlled. I'll simply end turn turn for both side, moving nothing, until March of '43 then put the AI back in charge. That might be interesting.
I have enjoyed this GC. I have learned a great deal. Many of you will have seen many bad moves and some not so bad. It is interesting how different our styles change when we play the AI versus a person. That said, I believe the AI did a pretty good job. I have already been plotting my next strategy. This AAR has been fun to do. Thanks for reading it and I hope you have enjoyed it.
Fake edit: I have continued the game. I wish to see how far I get before mud hits. Once things slow down I'll post the out come.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
How close are you to getting enough VPs to end the game?
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Decisive vicotry half way through turn 120, September 30, 1943. I finished the turn and put this shot together.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Thanks for posting the numbers, etc.
It seems that the soviet AI lost so much strength during the suicidal winter offensive, that it was incapable of properly defending once winter was over - the defensive line collapsed almost as soon as you started attacking.
Looking at the various AARs in this forum so far, it seems that there is quite a strong tipping point with the AI: It seems very strong the whole time, but then when it reaches that point it just collapses like a house of cards. Though your example is the most egrerious one so far, I think.
Very nice that you still have the saved game from before the winter offensives started. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference those 2 million men will make.
It seems that the soviet AI lost so much strength during the suicidal winter offensive, that it was incapable of properly defending once winter was over - the defensive line collapsed almost as soon as you started attacking.
Looking at the various AARs in this forum so far, it seems that there is quite a strong tipping point with the AI: It seems very strong the whole time, but then when it reaches that point it just collapses like a house of cards. Though your example is the most egrerious one so far, I think.
Very nice that you still have the saved game from before the winter offensives started. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference those 2 million men will make.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Well played.
I think two events set up your victory.
The first is turning AGC North towards Leningrad (vice South as per the war) was probably the most important. Reinforces my view that the Axis player must get the Finns in play to win. It also goes a long way to illustrate why the Axis desire to simply kill off or capture lots of Russians instead of taking key strategic points lost them the war.
The other event was moving AGS directly east towards Kiev. Though you lose the big pocket in the south everyone (including myself) seems to want to gobble up in the first couple turns, it allows you to eat up lots of Soviet terrain and cities, as per the war. Once again, putting objectives before incurring casualties pays rich dividends. Plenty of time to pocket Soviets, the more important objective in the South is to keep pushing forward.
Overall, while most folks recognize that turning AGC southwards was a strategic mistake, your management of AGC was fascinating from start to finish. A great tutorial in "what they should have done."
Again... well played.
I think two events set up your victory.
The first is turning AGC North towards Leningrad (vice South as per the war) was probably the most important. Reinforces my view that the Axis player must get the Finns in play to win. It also goes a long way to illustrate why the Axis desire to simply kill off or capture lots of Russians instead of taking key strategic points lost them the war.
The other event was moving AGS directly east towards Kiev. Though you lose the big pocket in the south everyone (including myself) seems to want to gobble up in the first couple turns, it allows you to eat up lots of Soviet terrain and cities, as per the war. Once again, putting objectives before incurring casualties pays rich dividends. Plenty of time to pocket Soviets, the more important objective in the South is to keep pushing forward.
Overall, while most folks recognize that turning AGC southwards was a strategic mistake, your management of AGC was fascinating from start to finish. A great tutorial in "what they should have done."
Again... well played.
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Lava, thank you for your kind words. It was most certainly an interesting game. I definately learned alot. I am so very glad this game is finally out. What a great tool to help experiment different what if scenarios. [:)]
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
How about a shot of the victory screen?
As the Germans I may not ever see that one... [:)]
As the Germans I may not ever see that one... [:)]
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
You wish if my command! Notice the routed Guard unit. [:D]
RE: Another AAR... Gr v SU 41 - 45. Really.
Hmmm... nothing special. Though the words "Axis Decisive Victory" stand out! [:D]