Kicking it old school GC Ketza (A) vrs Mark (Soviet)

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Our house rules are pretty simple and mirror some major changes that will be in the patch so we couldnt wait to start until it came out.

1) No RR movement of factories turn one

2) No RR or sea movement of routed units

What are your views, as a long time east front gamer, on such issues as the 'unfreezing' of the supposedly shivering Romanians by putting a single Panzer div against their border?

I dont have much of an issue with it. It gives the Axis player a strategic decision to make on turn one whether or not to try and release them early. If you think about it there really isnt a whole lot of different strategic options open to the Axis player on the first turn. Things are pretty much locked in place.

One of my favorite moves in FITE was to entrain a Panzer corps and bring it down to Rumania. That caused severe headaches for the Soviets. In this game that option is not available as all the RR hexes are blacked out on turn one.

Anything that breaks the script and provides options is a good thing.

[Ketza]

3rd Panzer stops after the first week at the banks of the Neman river after destroying another Soviet tank division:



The 3rd Panzer had advanced over 200 miles while shattering a Soviet armored division and a motorized division. It along with its motorized infantry divsion in tow wrecked a Soviet mech corps with very little losses. Along the banks of the river the division rests while waiting for a link up with 3rd PZ to seal the huge central paocket.

[Ketza]

The story behind the dot city of Pruzhany.

As our armies sweep back and forth over our virtual battlefields the names and places often are obscure and not really noticed. As I was looking for a map for the litte dot city that just happened to be the 3rd Panzers first battle I ran across a brief history of the location:

The Twentieth Century
In 1927, almost sixty percent of the population in Pruz'any was Jewish, and sixteen of the twenty-four delegates elected to the municipal government were Jews.

The War Years (1934 - 1941)
Under the Soviet Union from 1934 to 1941, Jewish communal bodies were disbanded, cooperatives were established, and educational institutions were reorganized. When war broke out between Russia and Germany in June 1941, the Germans took control of the area. They immediately exacted a fine from the Jewish community of 500,000 rubles, two kilograms of gold and ten kilograms of silver to be paid within twenty-four hours. By September 1941, the Germans had set up a Jewish ghetto and soon all the Jews from the surrounding area were herded into it.

Within a few months, a Jewish underground formed a resistance organization in the ghetto. They made contact with the local partisans in the surrounding forests. The organization was soon disbanded after being discovered by the Germans. The deportations to Auschwitz began in January 1943. Some resistance members were able to escape and join the Jewish partisans in the forests, however, within four days, the Jewish community was destroyed.

After the War
By the late 1960's, there were twelve Jewish families left in Pruzhany. The great synagogue had been turned into an electric power plant.

I suppose all of the places on the map have their own story to tell. When time allows Iwill explore these stories.

[veji1]

gasp, this is so depressing and yet so typical of the area... This game is great and all, but I suddenly got reminded that behind panzer divs you had all those einsatz gruppen exacting their horrible toll... brr chilling

[Redmarkus5]

Reads like Konin. That's an excellent book, by the way, describing that whole process in great detail.

[Ketza]

Post Superbowl update:

Finished quick moves in the center. The usual stuff with a large pocket and a mini one. I was moving a little careless but I think it will all hold solid.

[Q-Ball]

I really like the Maps and pictures, this is a good AAR.

Couple opening move points:
-2ndACR already pointed out, I would take out that port in Estonia. Your priority turn-1 is isolating units
-I would have grabbed Riga, if Pskov is a priority. You can get 2 Panzer Divs to hasty-attack it from the EAST on turn-1, which is enough to clear it.
-I would also have put a unit adjacent to Minsk; prevents the Reds from moving the factories

All those pockets will hold though

I am interested in your AGS move, but I think you are borrowing units from Pz Gp 2 to make a big Lvov pocket. That's what I would do!

[Ketza]

Our attention turns to the South. The most critical hex to attack and unhinge things. There is a Soviet division with a CV of 6.

Coords x52 y80 Rough behind the bug river.

111,75 and 57 infantry divisions witht eh 99 Jager and 4 battalions of pioneers and one heavy machine gun battalion.

First they cross in the early dawn:



Then they group up and head towards the hills:



Ground support is on:



And the assault begins:

[Ketza]

Success!

We get a retreat result even with the Soviet talking light casualties.



Now the goal is to finish off the Kovel pocket by linking up with 2PG infantry and prepping the way for the Lvow pocket. Taking this hex is a big help in getting things done.

[Q-Ball]

You can take out that Hill with 3 divisions from 17th Army on Deliberate attack. The problem with using the 6th Army Divs is that you will now need Panzers to close the Kovel pocket; you need those guys along the border to close the Kovel pocket with Infantry (which you can do; that can be an infantry/Cav only pocket).

[timmyab]

I'm wondering if the soviets can break your AGC pockets.There could be a vulnerable point north of Minsk.If a unit can rail into that town NW of minsk and get into the swamp hex just west of it,(or across the river,less likely), there's a chance he can resupply the entire thing, depending upon rally results etc.

[Ketza]

In the south I have decided to try the "Q Ball" approach to the Lvov pocket. My own Lvow pocket moves were deemed not agressive enough so here goes.

6th and 17th moved and created the hole. Kovel area has a pocket that could have been better but it will do. The battle for hex x58 y82 against the 34th tank division by all of the 47th PZ corp takes place to dislodge this important hex:



I was hoping for a shatter but killiing 219 tanks should render the 34th to nothing more then a mob. As you can see 17th army cut heavily into the future pocket by attacking weak units to disrupt any potential redistributing of his units as well as get at his airfields to kill damaged planes.

[Ketza]

Final AGS - Pocket looks good but one can only hope a mistake wasnt made:



My thanks to Qball for the opening move idea here. Like I said my openings were never quite this bold.

Here are some scenes from 1941 in the AGS south area:

German columns pass destroyed Soviet armor:



Destroyed Soviet armor:





One can only imagine the carnage the German troops witnessed as they advanced forward. It must have been a tremendous boost to thier morale to see so much Soviet equipment destroyed and airfileds smashed.

[Ketza]

Quick turn around on Marks part of which I will digest later. He made some furious attempts to break the pocket in the south but the lines all held and he lost a lot of tanks. Here is a look at the battle of Novoselitsa along the Rumanian border where he commited 2 strong tank divisions against 14th Panzer.



From a satellite image the terrain is mixed woods and somewhat hilly but the approach the Soviet tanks would have taken here is across flat open ground against a slight hill to their front. They would also have been channeled into a killing zone because of a steep hill directly to their right as well as been channeled by heavy woods leading to the town.

One could imagine the pak line waiting for them and the counterattack by the 36th PZ regiment as the Soviets floundered under fire.




And the lopsided results:

[Klydon]

Nice graphics, but they messed me up as the two tank divisions you show in the graphic are not the two that attacked. The two that attacked probably had that anti-tank crew shaking since the two divisions have over 200 T-34's between them. [:D]

Those two tank divisions in the south can be nasty, but can be misleading as well. They will absolutely punt German regiments that attempt to seal the pocket in the south along the Rumanian border. They can also move Rumanian infantry divisions as well, but will suffer fairly heavy losses. Against a German division? Not so much. The best thing the Russians can do with those guys in most cases is get them out of dodge and turn them into glorified ditch diggers. The mech unit with them also needs to be saved imo. Those three units pack over 3000 trucks I think.

Enjoying the AAR. [:)]

[Q-Ball]

I can't take credit for the Lvov pocket idea, it was thought of way before me. I just did a thread on it is all (that AGS thread), and worked it a few times to see if it could be done without an extra Pz Corps. I discovered it can be made but not really HELD vs. humans without the extra troops. But I think extra Mobile units in the south pays dividends anyway, so why not commit them turn 1.

Pocketing the units in Lvov is key to a quick start in the south. That's a pile of divisions that won't be bothering you.

You should be on track to eliminate 1 mil Reds in the first 3 weeks.

I am finding what Flavius said; the Red Tank Divisions look fearsome with high AVs, but in reality, they melt away quick in combat, don't have any replacements, and never seem to have enough MPs to do a Deliberate attack. T-26s and BTs doing hasty attacks against Germans seem to just Explode spontaneously, they do so bad......

Nice pictures in your AAR BTW

[SuluSea]

Good looking AAR Ketza. It will be interesting to see what the Soviets do down south considering the blocking forces. Interested to see the next day screen if you have the time. [:)] Best of luck!

[Ketza]

3rd Panzer turn 2 -

3rd Panzer, 10th Motorised and GD smash into the 24th Rifle division at Minsk.

The Soviets retreat from the general area of Minsk but leave behind the 24th rifle to defend the place. It is stormed by elements of 24th Pz Corp. The initial attack is beaten back:





And then a more determined attack:


24th put up a stiff fight but in the end the results were typical:

[Ketza]

I have completed AGN and AGC moves. Will do an update after AGS moves are done on the whole front.

[Q-Ball]

That is a great photo up top, of the Landser near the burning BT Tank. Where are you getting these?

No need to smash into Minsk. You don't need Minsk. I would have bypassed the unit there, and let it rot next turn.

Good job in the South though, you should be on pace to capture ALOT of Reds in the first 3 turns....