Road to Leningrad stalemate (again)

[coolts]

I have failed in my second attempt at the “road to Leningrad” scenario and feel that there is no point even attempting the GC until I can get a result here. I have moved at top speed to Leningrad this time, (I dawdled last time), and feel the absolute key to the city has to lie with creating a giant pocket.

With the Finns I have taken the lake Ladoga ports and also taken the whole Volkhov estuary (a few turns after this pic), and still couldn’t cut the city off from its supply?

What am I missing here? There is no Kriegsmarine to enforce a blockade. Yet they are getting their supplies from somewhere.

One of the biggest problems is the bloody swamps. I’ve had Russian divisions with a defence of 2 or so, shrugging off multiple stacks with a combined score of 30+, with “held” results! This is insane. If this held true, all wars would end in stalemate with one side going into a swamp

[Mynok]

You have to actually control an unbroken chain of hexes all the way to the Finnish border. There is still a port under the 1=2 fortification up there.

[Klydon]

The swamps will also be addressed in the coming patch. 

[heliodorus04]

Also please note: Swamps are bugged and modify defender CV by an unintended (and apparently grotesque) amount.
This is the big patch every Axis player is waiting for (and every Soviet player fears) (I play both sides).  The beta of this patch should hit any day now.

There are 3 ports on the eastern/southern edge of Lake Ladoga, ANY of which can Supply Leningrad in full.  You either must occupy those ports, or isolate them from the greater Soviet supply.  Like it or not, it's reasonably historic: Leningrad never fell.

Trying to get across the Volkhov is key.  East of Novgorod it's a minor river.  South of Lake Ilmen it doesn't exist.
Once you isolate the ports & Leningrad, swamps or no, the units inside that pocket are freakin doomed.  It took me 3 or 4 turns to eliminate them, and I got a Decisive victory. (This against the AI - a human knows the 'right hook' strategy.'

Some players have even managed to take Leningrad by brute force, but they're very good.

[coolts]

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Cheers guys. I will revisit an earlier save and take the lake ports to complete the seige
Before attacking the city

Glad to hear about the swamp fix as well

Weird how two ports, themselves cut off, can supply leningrad. With what? Empty food bowls? A few fishies

Seems like a daft rule.

[Senno]

If you take out the first fort in the line and link up with the Finns, Leningrad will be isolated. You are very close with 4th Panzer to that right now.

[56ajax]

I dont know what your complaining about, it took me about 8 starts to obtain a decisive win; move quickly, resupply by air, do the right hook and isolate leningrad; once that happens victory is a couple of turns away...

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: coolts

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Cheers guys. I will revisit an earlier save and take the lake ports to complete the seige
Before attacking the city

Glad to hear about the swamp fix as well

Weird how two ports, themselves cut off, can supply leningrad. With what? Empty food bowls? A few fishies

Seems like a daft rule.

Seems like a reasonable recreation of history to a certain extent to me, actually. Millions starved (pretty sure it was millions, but some historian type here will correct me if I'm wrong), but the city never surrendered.

[raizer]

this thread is against a person and not the ai right?

[coolts]

It’s against the AI, and I guess I am battling information overload / lack at the same time. Its only my 2nd run through of a scenario so am still learning.

I will try and link with the Finns from an earlier save. It just seems a bit hit and miss as to how you truly isolate Leningrad.

It would be beneficial if you could see where a cities supply was coming from in the GUI,
Especially once you have cut all the obvious rail links.

Is it worth installing the beta patch? I looked at the change log and couldn’t see the swamp "bug" mentioned apart from this "Fixed a problem where fort levels in a swamp hex could exceed 3"

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: coolts

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Weird how two ports, themselves cut off, can supply leningrad. With what? Empty food bowls? A few fishies

Seems like a daft rule.

They don't if they themselves are isolated. It's the port next to Finns on far left of Russian fort line you have to isolate as well. Best done by getting a nearby fort to surrender then Finns pour in through the hole. They won't attack but free your troops to kill enormous numbers of isolated Russians

You will find it much easier when swamps, heavy woods and rough lose their magic powers in a day or so.

[coolts]

V1.03 Beta 3 – February 7, 2011

· New Features and Rule Changes

1. Rule addendum and rule change – Units defending in Heavy or Light Urban terrain receive a doubling of their Combat Value when determining the winner and loser of the battle. This doubling is in addition to all other modifiers previously reported. Prior to this version, this doubling also applied to defenders in Swamp, Rough, Mountain and Heavy Forest terrain. This has been removed, so the doubling now only occurs in Heavy or Light Urban terrain.

YAY [:)]

[aciddrinker]

ORIGINAL: coolts

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Cheers guys. I will revisit an earlier save and take the lake ports to complete the seige
Before attacking the city

Glad to hear about the swamp fix as well

Weird how two ports, themselves cut off, can supply leningrad. With what? Empty food bowls? A few fishies

Seems like a daft rule.

In real they transported 45k tons of supplies to November before lakes started being frozen.

[Balou]

You are just 2 hexes away from encircling Leningrad. See attachment. It's Sviritsa (toggle units off, then you will see it), last port remaining that can resupply Leningrad.

[coolts]

Right! That makes sense. The other ports were cut off from the main soviet hex......area. so were not "in supply" i guess whereas that bloody port has the forts along it.

I am going to install the latest beta of patch 3 as the mega swamp forcefield effect is getting a bit much.

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

I dont know what your complaining about, it took me about 8 starts to obtain a decisive win; move quickly, resupply by air, do the right hook and isolate leningrad; once that happens victory is a couple of turns away...

You sir are a more patient man than I [&o]

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: coolts

Right! That makes sense. The other ports were cut off from the main soviet hex......area. so were not "in supply" i guess whereas that bloody port has the forts along it.

The forts had nothing to do with the port being in supply. It was in supply because it could trace a line of Russian controlled hexes eastward to the Russian supply sources.

You have to take all the ports or cut them off from the east edge of the map. That's it. Nothing else enters the equation.

[Balou]

Btw, the forts shouldn't be a problem either, they're 1-1. I never played the scenario, but from the GC I can tell you that they aren't a real problem as long as you hit them soon or with a cv of 2-4.