Stalin's fired, I'm in charge! - Tullius (Soviet) vs SireChaos (Axis)

[cookie monster]

Time to retreat from the salient in South Western Front me thinks.

BTW What happened to the defenders of Odessa? Did they auto ROUT outta the port or surrender?

[TulliusDetritus]

In the Southern Front he is advancing at snail's pace as well. He might get to the eastern part of the screenshot on let's say 1943? [:D] Maybe I'll be bringing some cavalry divisions. The orders? Perhaps create a big mess on his rear? Oh, and as I have said above, Odessa finally fell.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

Time to retreat from the salient in South Western Front me thinks.

BTW What happened to the defenders of Odessa? Did they auto ROUT outta the port or surrender?

As you said on one of your comments, yes, they managed to escape via the port.

[cookie monster]

Excellent. It's nice to know key locations such as Odessa and Sevastapol can be left isolated and still in supply.

Plus the defenders aren't doomed to surrender.

Only counter is to leave a retreat hex for the defeated defenders to retreat to, to be then isolated for the next turns surrender battle.

Sorry for the spam,but I think it's an important concept for this game.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

Only counter is to leave a retreat hex for the defeated defenders to retreat to, to be then isolated for the next turns surrender battle.

That in my opinion would be rather gamey. I mean either the German player surrounds Odessa or he doesn't [8D] In real life the units would leave using the port, not leaving the city [???] to fall in the German hands [&:]

Sorry for the spam,but I think it's an important concept for this game.

Eh??!! Spam?? You are NOT spamming. All the comments are welcome [8D]

[Pawsy]

Dont retreat counter attack as you suggest. He's over extended and out of railway. If you cavalry attack swings south, not north and can take one of the small ports on the cost you will be supply and have isolated his allies who, after all are pretty weak even when in supply. Echelon some reserves to exploit and you will roll him up.

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Maybe I'll be bringing some cavalry divisions. The orders? Perhaps create a big mess on his rear?

Number One priority against AGS is battle training/destruction of Axis Allied Forces.

A number of options

1. Get some cheap victories, for morale/guards farming purposes

2.Force surrender of Axis Allied forces, according p241 of ebook, destroyed Axis Allies are not rebuilt.

High morale troops especially in later Cav/Tank/Mech Corps are vital, due to paying lower Movement Point cost to enter enemy ZOC

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: starbuck310

Dont retreat counter attack as you suggest. He's over extended and out of railway. If you cavalry attack swings south, not north and can take one of the small ports on the cost you will be supply and have isolated his allies who, after all are pretty weak even when in supply. Echelon some reserves to exploit and you will roll him up.

You mean in the Southern Front, Starbuck? Excellent advice, thank you [&o]

[randallw]

So how many German divisions died up north?

[TulliusDetritus]

No one died yet Randall [8D] So far I'ven been ONLY laying the table... [:D] The cannibals are hungry so I'm going to unleash them this turn (and the next one). What you see is what I've got when I opened the turn... Now I have to MOVE and possibly start attacking & destroying & SWALLOWING his surrounded units...

[cookie monster]

One thing I will say is

When forcing surrendering of German panzers etc you will incur alot of casualties

Just for your info

BTW How do you make the arrows? I remember you said you was using GIMP

[TulliusDetritus]

I am using Paint.net now. When I first tried to use GIMP I could not see the "make arrow" option. Then like one or two weeks after that I found out that you can draw these arrows but you need a very small plugin (40 kb or so).

I didn't know I would be having lots of casualties whilst I try to destroy the enemy panzers. Oh well... as long as they are literally annihilated I don't care at all (now I'm being harsh eh?)

[randallw]

Killing panzer divisions will always hurt; might as well do it after they've been surrounded.  Killing them by shattering is a hard goal.

[Pawsy]

Yes, south towards supply at ports. Your operational objective is the destruction of the axis allied units. The tactical level objective is to seize the supply ports which will bring about a catastrophic supply loss for German allies. From which you will gain your operational objective. The Germans will be forced to call off attacks to the north to restore the situation which gives you a tactical pause before going over to the attack in the centre. This will start to overload the German commander and force a mistake which you can exploit thus gaining the initiative. I echelon my reserves for Soviet attacks. Send in one wave with 2 or 3 more behind it. Soviet tactic to maintain attack without having to stop to replenish units. Works with Germans too

Soviets developed and masterd the art of the deep battle. The destruction of Army group Centre is a good example. The first-echelon, fights the break in battle at the tactical level. 2nd echelon develops the breakthrough and the 3rd echelon would exploit to deep operational objectives. Holding groups on both flanks tie down enemy counter attacks and forces by mobile or area defence. Once the main attack gained momentum the echelons merged to support the operational or depth attack. In the game you can, like for real, conduct a forward passage of lines where a fresh unit overtakes the lead ones and continue the attack. So defeating your enemy by acting quicker than he can react.

[Pawsy]

End result might look like this. The Soviets used a forward non mobile defence and paid the price. Operational level defeat.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Killing panzer divisions will always hurt; might as well do it after they've been surrounded.  Killing them by shattering is a hard goal.

Hmm, this means they can resist 2, 3 or more turns, surrounded as they are? I don't want the 7th Cavalry to arrive and help them. I don't think he's got enough troops to do that but... [:(]

ORIGINAL: starbuck310

Yes, south towards supply at ports. Your operational objective is the destruction of the axis allied units. The tactical level objective is to seize the supply ports which will bring about a catastrophic supply loss for German allies. From which you will gain your operational objective. The Germans will be forced to call off attacks to the north to restore the situation which gives you a tactical pause before going over to the attack in the centre. This will start to overload the German commander and force a mistake which you can exploit thus gaining the initiative. I echelon my reserves for Soviet attacks. Send in one wave with 2 or 3 more behind it. Soviet tactic to maintain attack without having to stop to replenish units. Works with Germans too

Soviets developed and masterd the art of the deep battle. The destruction of Army group Centre is a good example. The first-echelon, fights the break in battle at the tactical level. 2nd echelon develops the breakthrough and the 3rd echelon would exploit to deep operational objectives. Holding groups on both flanks tie down enemy counter attacks and forces by mobile or area defence. Once the main attack gained momentum the echelons merged to support the operational or depth attack. In the game you can, like for real, conduct a forward passage of lines where a fresh unit overtakes the lead ones and continue the attack. So defeating your enemy by acting quicker than he can react.

Interesting analysis, thank you [&o] The problem is (I hadn't paid attention to this) now we should add more components to this equation. Odessa fell and therefore he's got like 7 more divisions which should be joining this [temporarily] weak Southern Front. So I doubt there will be a gap in let's say 2 turns maximum [:)] I will bring these divisions the same. I don't think they're very useful in front of the AGS Panzers. Just in case, after all his AGN was supposed to protect its right flank but it didn't! [:D] The truth is we never know what the good lord will be providing.

The operations you mention on your second paragraph should occur on 1943 minimum. I'm way too weak right now [8D]

[TulliusDetritus]

Starbuck, there are minimum 50 divisions inside that pocket [X(]

[cookie monster]

For your low CV units,yes it will be bloody.

I reckon though the final adjusted CV's for the isolated units will be around 0-20 CV.

If you can match that with deliberate attacks then you'll be fine.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

For your low CV units,yes it will be bloody.

I reckon though the final adjusted CV's for the isolated units will be around 0-20 CV.

If you can match that with deliberate attacks then you'll be fine.

Well, tomorrow I should more or less know Or perhaps I will need another turn... I want to make sure that his 2 panzer divisions will be irrelevant. On a second thought... if they keep advancing, I might bag them as well, who knows given that I have between 20 and 30 divisions SE of them...
[center][/center]

[Aurelian]

Let the penal battallions lead the way.