Flavio v. James, GC 41.

[Ketza]

I would point out my reasonings of why the Axis opening turn in AGS was weak but others have done so already.

[ComradeP]

After thinking about it for an hour or so, I think I'm going to disband some of the Tank divisions.

You have far more than your tank pool and production can support, you don't really need them as brigades as including converting Tank divisions, you'll end up with something like 110 Tank brigades by the time you can create corps and generally 30 Tank corps is sort of the limit, and if you reduce the number of Tank divisions you can keep the others reasonably up to strength for the ~11 turns you can use them before they start downgrading to brigade status. You also have lots of divisions that start at around 1 CV with no hope of getting the tanks they need, and those will be pretty much useless until their TOE switch, after which they'll be pretty much useless as brigades.

That way, maybe the Soviets can actually launch some attacks with them instead of treating them as speedbumps.

[Flaviusx]

I stop at 24 tank corps, myself. But I like having the extra tank brigades around later on for merging into beat up tank corps. A trick I use a lot in the 43 scenario, in fact. Soviets can burn through an amazing number of tanks late in the game.

[ComradeP]

24x3=72, so you could disband around 20 Tank divisions and still have room for Tank brigades to merge into Tank corps.

The Tank brigades have a maximum of around 50 tanks in their TOE until November 1943, the 40 or so surplus Tank brigades that you don't merge contain around 2000 tanks that could otherwise have been used by the Tank corps. Merging the Tank brigades into the Tank corps thus essentially cures a problem caused by the presence of the Tank brigades, although if you did indeed somehow blow through 2000 AFV's in a single turn against Bob, that's just a very temporary fix.

I guess I'm not really thinking like a Soviet commander. Even when playing as the Soviets, I prefer a slim, streamlined and efficient army instead of a huge but mediocre mob.

[Flaviusx]

Pieter, the thing is, merging the brigades allows you to keep pushing the spearhead. You are not necessarily going to have a converted rail line nearby to move a beat up tank corps to, you might have to march a good distance back. By feeding tank brigades at the very front itself, they can get back into action a bit more quickly.

Bob lost about half the amount of AFVs I did that turn, btw. We both had losses well into the 6 figures in terms of manpower. It's an incredibly bloody game. I'm abusing the hell out of the +1 attack business in human wave attacks to get things moving, to the point where I'm wondering if it is overpowered even in 1943, despite my previous opinion that it didn't matter at that point. If the Sov is reckless and willing to burn out the Red Army to crack a strong German line on a broad front, this +1 rule actually comes into play even then. Bob changed his defensive tactics in this game and is presenting much stronger forward defenses.

[MrLongleg]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

After thinking about it for an hour or so, I think I'm going to disband some of the Tank divisions.

You have far more than your tank pool and production can support, you don't really need them as brigades as including converting Tank divisions, you'll end up with something like 110 Tank brigades by the time you can create corps and generally 30 Tank corps is sort of the limit, and if you reduce the number of Tank divisions you can keep the others reasonably up to strength for the ~11 turns you can use them before they start downgrading to brigade status. You also have lots of divisions that start at around 1 CV with no hope of getting the tanks they need, and those will be pretty much useless until their TOE switch, after which they'll be pretty much useless as brigades.

That way, maybe the Soviets can actually launch some attacks with them instead of treating them as speedbumps.

Isn't that making units static to avoid destruction of vehicles a bit gamey? In reality those vehicles could not be beamed to the East so easily, so they would probably fall in German hands anyway.

[ComradeP]

The motor pool is abstracted at the moment, and we don't have the option of repurposing divisions into another type or a smaller type. The Axis eventually need to set units to static too to sustain an offensive, the Soviets can do the same thing. You lose the combat effectiveness of the unit and get some vehicles in return, it's not gamey in the sense that it only provides a benefit, as you can't really use the static unit.

[Klydon]

The trucks and vehicles deal is why I have been harping on preserving the Russian armor/motorized divisions. I disbanded a couple of tank divisions that I knew I could not get out long term and did not want to blow the rail cap on. The other units I have on digging duty and use as a back stop line, depending on what shape they are in. The motorized divisions go find a city someplace and start digging. As soon as it hits level 2 fortification, the motorized unit gets put in static. My first game, I did some of the armored divisions this way as well, but it hasn't been worth it since I was not really hurting on command points and it costs more AP to reactivate them after they flip over to brigades. When the motorized divisions flip over to rifle divisions, they are very cheap (4 AP usually) to reactivate. 

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Haudrauf1962

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

After thinking about it for an hour or so, I think I'm going to disband some of the Tank divisions.

You have far more than your tank pool and production can support, you don't really need them as brigades as including converting Tank divisions, you'll end up with something like 110 Tank brigades by the time you can create corps and generally 30 Tank corps is sort of the limit, and if you reduce the number of Tank divisions you can keep the others reasonably up to strength for the ~11 turns you can use them before they start downgrading to brigade status. You also have lots of divisions that start at around 1 CV with no hope of getting the tanks they need, and those will be pretty much useless until their TOE switch, after which they'll be pretty much useless as brigades.

That way, maybe the Soviets can actually launch some attacks with them instead of treating them as speedbumps.

Isn't that making units static to avoid destruction of vehicles a bit gamey? In reality those vehicles could not be beamed to the East so easily, so they would probably fall in German hands anyway.

Well, I can rail them to the east and use them to start digging in or I can ground them and rail the vehicles east. The difference: in real life less strain on the rail system. Or I can rail them east and then ground them. A lot of valid choices and not gamey at all IMHO

[ComradeP]

it costs more AP to reactivate them after they flip over to brigades

That would depend on how many vehicles they have left when they are about to be set to static. Generally, you should be able to at least break-even, but of course there's a lot more to gain with motorized divisions.

[Klydon]

I think in the 4 or 5 cases I did it, I wound up losing some AP's in every case, but it could be argued that it was worth it from the standpoint that it gave me more AP's to play with earlier in the campaign and I didn't have to reactivate them if I didn't want to. 

[MrLongleg]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

The motor pool is abstracted at the moment, and we don't have the option of repurposing divisions into another type or a smaller type. The Axis eventually need to set units to static too to sustain an offensive, the Soviets can do the same thing. You lose the combat effectiveness of the unit and get some vehicles in return, it's not gamey in the sense that it only provides a benefit, as you can't really use the static unit.

At least I hope you can't static or disband units that are far enough from a rail head or pocketed...

[Flaviusx]

Turn 2. I continue to delay in the Northwest Front area. He might try to end run me and get to Leningrad via the Narva back door, need to watch for that. The Pskov line begins to take shape, and Northwest Front gets new generals in 8. and 11. Armies (Sokolovsky and Vasilevsky.)

[Flaviusx]

3. Panzer Group looks like it is trying to slide past Vitebsk north of the Dvina. I reinforce this area with Tolbukhin's 22. Army. Vatutin takes command of the 20. Army along the Smolensk landbridge and also receives reserves from Moscow.

Remnants of Western Front continue to try to delay a Dnepr crossing. Reserves from the Orel MD arrive at the Dnepr and start digging.

[Flaviusx]

James is very fond of tearing up rail lines in lieu of pocketing. AGS continues to push in a very narrow corridor and grabs Proskurov. I continue to screen west of Rovno and deploy in mass around Proskurov. His panzers are getting very stretched and his infantry support is lagging. No counterattacks as of yet, but looking to do something here next turn. C&C is very bad here right now, NW Front and the two fresh STAVKA armies near Vitebsk and Smolensk received the lion's share of APs and reorg spending this turn. But I intend to straighten out SW Front next turn.

My corps HQs are nearly all gone now, so I can focus my spending on C&C and SUs from here on out.

[Flaviusx]

This is the most important loss screen for the Soviets in 1941. Not the raw manpower and equipment losses, but the units lost.

I judge these to be very light losses. The German isn't pocketing much. There's plenty of manpower coming and I ended the turn with a quarter million men in my pool.

[ComradeP]

Nice going thus far Flavio, I have the feeling he might already be a bit less sure about his initial statements about how easy breakthroughs are.

I really have no idea why James is going for such a narrow penetration in the Southwest Front area. It's "the" area where he didn't pocket anything and you thus have plenty of units to place a carpet with, even if you don't rail stuff in. The land bridge between the minor rivers west of Proskurov is also the obvious location for an attack, hence my carpet there.

I also don't get why he moves units up to cut a rail line and then moves them back again. It's not like it will really hurt on the short term.

What are you refitting currently, everything to get morale up? I refitted my usual 5-6 STAVKA Rifle corps in the central area so they're in good shape when they unfreeze.

When do you start forming RR construction brigades, turn 3-4?

[Flaviusx]

Everything is refitting except for the stuff in the Transcaucus more or less. I'm not hurting on replacements. The quarter million men I have in the kitty right now should cover the 25 cadre divisions arriving on turn 3, leaving the per turn production to reinforce existing units.

Tearing up the rail lines does complicate reinforcement to the front. But ultimately not very much. I really do need to sort out my command situation in the south, I can't counterattack down there until that happens. I'm hoping he does something silly near Vitebsk and Smolensk...because there I am set up to start hammering next turn. That swamp area west of VL is one of my favorite places to fight it out with rifle divisions. And I put Tolbukhin and Vatutin over there.

I started forming RR brigades on turn 1. 3 per Front. (Plus the ones that start in STAVKA, which can redeploy for free to the Fronts.) This turn I started forming them in armies. 5 armies got 3 apiece. (The 3 armies of NW Front plus Tolbukhin and Vatutin.) More coming as I sort out my c&c.

[ComradeP]

I'm sticking to my self imposed limit of a maximum of around 2 armies refitting at the same time for the moment. With the low national morale of 1941 and the morale gain from combat changes/nerf, the odd thing is that Soviet troops won't nearly benefit as much from combat as from refitting (as in: getting from 37 to 50 from combat takes forever now, but it still takes only half a dozen or so turns when refitting), so the changes will probably force me to abandon the limit after a while.

Your line north of the Dnepr up to that Northwest Front Rifle division does look a bit thin, but by now he should have mobile units with 30-35 MP's instead of 45 or so, so less depth is required.

Did he just force his way through the checkerboards, routing/retreating and then routing everything?

The morale changes will also have a fairly serious impact on the Germans, as James already stated, as he'll now pay 1 extra MP for entering enemy hexes with many of his units.

I'm not too worried about C&C for the moment, it won't stop me from attacking. Due to the rather sorry state of most of the Soviet forces, if I'd attack with 100 CV and get a 80% modifier, I only lose 20 CV, which is a lot compared to the total, but a small amount in terms of quantity of CV lost. Some good CV modifications or the odds modifier can compensate for that. CV loss is much more of a problem for good units, because the quantity of CV lost is much higher for those than it is for our conscript armies.

[Flaviusx]

Yeah he just went nuts routing my ants. He wants to inflate his morale and took the free shots, I guess. My own view is this eats up a lot of gas and supply to no particular operational purpose. Not to mention driving up his fatigue.

It's going to take him a dozen or more MPs just to hit that line along the Smolensk landbridge, and there is a screen in front of it. But I actually wouldn't mind him getting frisky here and sending some unsupported panzers into this area. I prefer him going in this direction than towards Gomel.