Dispatches from OKH: Q-Ball (Axis) v. Von Beeanie (SOV)

[Schmauser]

QBALL

My suggestion is to get those Panzer and motorized divisions into towns and cities before blizzard hits.

- They will be eviscerated which will reduce their quality come spring
- They take huge losses if pushed back
- They can effectively couterattack from those locations, but be sure to end your turn back in the town or city

What are your fort levels for the infantry that will hold the line?


My opinion is that you picked up the pace a little on losses. However, I think you have not inflicted enough casualties and your opponent will hit you hard.

Hopefully patching will help you a little since you won't get the double whammy of blizzard plus quality reductions because of TOE changes. They will start soon.

Good luck and thanks again for the great AAR.

[Q-Ball]

Short on time, so I'll post the following turn later tonight. Some highlights:

1. Von Beanie broke the pocket for two units (the place where I thought it was vulnerable), but otherwise, they all held. We eliminated 15 units as a result, including 10 Rifle Divisions

2. My Panzers, though, used up all their MPs making and holding the pockets. It's tough to have Panzers fueled after holding a pocket. I decided this turn NOT to pocket anything, just to sledgehammer units that look vulnerable. Otherwise, I will have Panzers next turn with few MPs, that need to motor out of trouble.

3. This is a "Hit and Run" offensive; I am almost done with the "HIT", the "RUN" will happen on first blizzard turn. No way am I staying on freshly conquered ground that has no forts at all! Between the space, weather, and Red exhaustion, I hope to buy a turn or two giving back the empty space.

I have noticed a few things about the Soviet OOB:

1. As previously noted, CAV stacks are all over, and he has lost very little CAV. Some divisions I attacked even had tanks still, which means they still have the 1941a OOB. I imagine they all convert to CAV CORPS shortly.
2. I am seeing alot of SEP TANK BNs. He is clearly creating those. I only played REDS breifly, but I don't like those units; they are really weak. But he may be planning on pairing 2 of those, and a Sapper Regt with each Cav Corps, creating sort of a Poor Man's Mech Corps.
3. So far in this offensive, I am killing old tanks like T-26s, BTs, but not many T-34s. Matildas and Valentines are on the loss list now. I wonder if this means T-34 production is temporarily hurting, due to capture of Leningrad/Kharkov (and need to move those factories). And not a SINGLE KV loss so far....

As a side note, 3rd Panzer Div. now has 22 T-34s!

[cookie monster]

The Seperate Tank battalion I have found useful in the later stages of the game posting CV's as high as 28. I have no idea if they are useful in 41-42 though.

[Klydon]

I looked at those battalions and did not care for them too much since they have mostly light tanks and not a lot of T-34/KV tanks. His tank production has to be screwed up from the standpoint that at the very least, he moved the factories. (KV in Leningrad I think and T-34 in Kharkov). I also don't know how much he got from his surviving armored divisions (Some started with a pile of T-34/KV tanks). To be honest, I wonder if he is planning on attacking with those cav corps a lot. From my test game, I made a bunch of them (14), but I have found I have not been attacking with them a lot, but rather trying to encircle troops as much as possible. They get fatigued a lot as it is and attacking just makes it that much worse. I also had plenty of old Soviet Tanks coming back as brigades as well, but I also have a pile of T-34/KV tanks as well.

[Q-Ball]

Good comments here, and I am asking the GALLERY: What next?

I have done parts of SNOW TURN 2, and the highlights:

We added 125,000 Dead Reds (well, 95,000 are POWs), and we lost 9,000 this turn (but 70 tanks). So totals so far for Winter Offensive: 22,000 Axis, plus 130 Tanks, and 190,000 Reds (figures do not include attrition losses). I destroyed 10 Divisions and 4 Brigades. So clearly, so far, this attack was worth it.

But do I continue?

Attached is a screenie of Von Beanie's reaction. He pulled back into good defensive positions. I definitely do not want to receive a Blizzard attack in the open, so I want to be back in that trench line by the time the Reds can attack. I also want the Panzers to be tucked into bed somewhere, like Kursk.

So here is my thinking:

1. I am halting; next turn, the Panzers will motor to Kursk, and bed down. I will leave the Infantry, though, in forward positions.
2. First BLIZZARD turn, I fall immediately back on my trenches. I can do this quicker than he can follow me. This will hopefully buy some time.

It's a little risky keeping them out of trenches for the first Blizzard turn, because he can attack in the last Snow Turn, knowing I can't counter it, so I better be able to beat him off. Still, I would love to trade a little space for time. Red Infantry can only move 2.5 hexes toward me during Blizzard that way, if my math is right (assuming he has to clear "enemy" hexes).

MINOR NOTE: Check out the bottom of the screen; he still has a Motorized Division! I attacked it this turn, sucker had over 200 tanks in it, mostly BTs. Surprised it's still out there!

[CharonJr]

Look out if you can blast any important rail lines before you retreat, this might drain his tranport pool a bit.

[Klydon]

Part of this is I am not sure what type of defense you intend to employ the most during the winter (line backer, checker board, or linear). Regardless, heavy fortifications in depth will be handy. German troops in blizzard in the open (low or no fortifications) are in trouble. Tired German troops in the blizzard are meat.

I think you look to accomplish a couple of things with a delay. First, try to avoid where he can launch big deliberate attacks on you from more than 2 hexes. Hasty attacks vs German during non blizzard = not much happening. Part of your key is to minimize as much as possible more than 2 hex attacks. He will still get ground, but it will drive up his casualties, reduce his "training" during the winter and generally do a better job of chewing up his troops.

In short, I think you retire a fair amount of troops, including some infantry (to give them that extra turn digging) and then retire your picket line the following turn. The picket line you leave out should be in towns if you can swing it to help reduce their first turn of losses. Just remember that moving around a lot causes your elements to become more damaged, etc. 

One thing I have not seen most Germans do real well is get fortifications going in depth. I know its hard, but once the Russians kick someone out of their fortifications, then they don't have much left to fall back on and it starts getting ugly.

Lastly, any plans on your mountain troops? The two German divisions are really the only ones that can consider counter attacking I think and make really good defenders as well. Breaking them down means they likely won't be doing much counter attacking however. I would not try attacking with the Axis allies.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 20, 11/20/41:

This is the 2nd Turn of Snow. As I mentioned above, we have inflicted 190,000 casualties on the Reds this offensive, with 95,000 POWs in 13 units. That's a decent haul this offensive, and to go for more I would have to take a bunch of risks that I don't want to take.

My Panzers don't have enough MPs to advance, attack next turn, and get to a safe place for the first turn of Blizzard. So we're not trying.

I am moving forward enough to convert some hexes, but we are falling back before the Blizzard.

I hope that's the right call, but I think it is. Though I did a little damage to Von Beanie, he is hoarding CAV, in pretty good shape, and overall I expect a bad Winter.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Klydon
I looked at those battalions and did not care for them too much since they have mostly light tanks and not a lot of T-34/KV tanks. His tank production has to be screwed up from the standpoint that at the very least, he moved the factories. (KV in Leningrad I think and T-34 in Kharkov). I also don't know how much he got from his surviving armored divisions (Some started with a pile of T-34/KV tanks).

Regarding tank production. It all depends at what time and if he evacuated the factories. If he got out the KV factory from Leningrad on Turn 4 or 5 and the Khakov T-34 plant one or two turns later these two factories would be already or close to be completely repaired. If he could evac the full capacity of those plants that means he can churn out about 100 T-34's and 50 KV's per week. Besides that, he should have by now a substantial amount of British Matildas and Valentines.

ORIGINAL: Klydon
To be honest, I wonder if he is planning on attacking with those cav corps a lot. From my test game, I made a bunch of them (14), but I have found I have not been attacking with them a lot, but rather trying to encircle troops as much as possible. They get fatigued a lot as it is and attacking just makes it that much worse. I also had plenty of old Soviet Tanks coming back as brigades as well, but I also have a pile of T-34/KV tanks as well.

I find Cav Corps to be pure exploitation units: they're good for converting enemy hexes and cut LOCs. But they're not too good on the attack nor on the defense: they're very fragile. Rather than attaching tanks to them I'd pack them with AT/AA and sapper units, to make the German counterattack interesting.

[Schmauser]

The only things that protect your troops in blizzard are towns, cities and urban hexes. Don't have the manual handy, but towns will mostly protect 1 unit, cities 2 and urban 3. Fortifications provide no remediation of the blizzard effects and you will watch those units melt away to the point where they will be driven out of the hex.

my suggestions are.

Get your armor to rail lines and bedded down in those towns and cities. You can then rail them in as fire brigades if needed.

Try to build your defenses around towns. There are a lot of them in AGS which helps a little.

Counterattack out of the towns and cities, but try not to end the turn in the open.

Divide your german mountain divisions into regiments. Each regiment is enough to beat off most odds. Use them to protect exposed sections of the line allowing the regular infantry to fight from towns.

You will get a fair number of new divisions during the winter. Use them as fire brigades and shelter them from blizzard effects until the last possible moment.

Get settled befor the first blizzard turn and not during it. Maintaining your quality will kill more russians than you can hope to accomplish with offensive action at this point. You will see this in your battle results as the Russians suffer a lot of killed when they attack during the blizzard.

Focus your actions on preserving you mobile forces. Your motorized divisions are infantry and will likely get mauled by the blizzard meatgrinder, but your panzers are your striking power during the snow turns. The panzers coupled with newly arriving infantry divisions will be your assault forces come the thaw. It's not much.

Try to use the "reserve" status if possible. I have limited empirical data on this, but the expectation is that a nicely bedded unit in a town might help the poor bloody infantry exposed to the cold.

Rotate your units. Don't leave the same unit in an exposed position as the blizzard will grind them down.

Don't expose your armor to attack. Your AFV losses will make you cry.

Make your Rumanians work. You are an experienced player and know about mountain divisions. However, spreading casualties to rumanian units will hopefully reduce your German losses. They might also prove to be an effective lure to either channel his advance or set up a counterstroke. You will get a lot of Hungarian units come spring to offset your rumanian losses.

Make sure of your supply net. Keep those FDB units safely working behind the line.

I would generally get your fortification units off the map once the blizzard hits. You need that manpower in the infantry divisions and they are easy casualties if attacked.

This suggestion is pure speculation. Use your air power to target his spearhead units. He's been hoarding Cavalry and it would be interesting to see if concerted air attack can bust em up a bit.

Make your Finns work. The russians can't beat them in the blizzard and I would give them every possible hex to defend. Watch out for units that are withdrawing though. My gut tells me that he will make a serious effort to retake Leningrad if only to reduce your Finnish support.

[PeeDeeAitch]

A note, town dots only protect 1 unit fully guaranteed if they are size 4. The check is against a d4 each turn according to the manual, so a size 3 is 75% chance, etc.

[Senno]

The Stalino, Rostov area is fairly dense with size 4 towns, your units down there should fare pretty well. The Area south of Tula down to there is fairly sparse though. Might be a rough winter at the AGS/AGC nexus.

[Alikchi2]

Yay, a Q-Ball WITE AAR! This is good stuff.

[ComradeP]

Only just noticed this AAR.

Really good progress, excellent play. Like Bob's game with Trey, a fair amount of your progress can probably be explained by poor defensive strategies and the Comrade Robinovich, but it's still impressive. Comparing your initial progress to mine, the main differences are that I got stuck in the AGN area solely due to the swamps, that AGC was too weak by itself to do much, and that my opponent's mix of line and checkerboard in the south slowed down AGS.

In terms of logistics, it can be very frustrating to open a game and see a Panzer corps with 200 fuel dumps. I use level bombers for supply drops, so I get about the maximum there is to get, but there seems to be no dump movement to units in supply phase 2. As a result, during the turn many dumps get damaged when the HQ's are moved, many vehicles get damaged, and the dumps can't be used by the units. Frustrating. Your opponent's Comrade Robinovich more or less nullified that problem, but it quickly slowed me down in my game with notenome. Starting turn after turn with units with 20-25 MP's and 200 fuel dumps in the HQ's wasn't nice, especially when added to his counterattacks.

With such good, near historical in the center and south and better in the north, progress, I'm really curious how the rest of the game will go.

This AAR is a very fine example of how a Comrade Robinovich strategy compared with a poor initial defensive setup can really screw up the Soviets in terms of territory they lose. His losses, including whole unit losses seem low, though, so he basically traded territory for preserving his army after the initial disasters.

[EntropyAvatar]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Starting turn after turn with units with 20-25 MP's and 200 fuel dumps in the HQ's wasn't nice, especially when added to his counterattacks.

I think I prefer dropping fuel on the units when I can. At least I know it will get to them.

[ComradeP]

The units do get the fuel I air drop on their HQ's, there's just a big bunch of dumps that arrive at a HQ in supply phase 2 that never gets moved to the units during that logistics phase.

[Mynok]

Have they fixed that yet?

[Q-Ball]

Turn 21: 11/27/41

The Snow is over. Unfortunately, it seems the Wehrmacht did not pack mittens for the winter (maybe we should have used those handy mitten clips my kids use), so I expect the next few turns to suck. Badly. Particularly since I know Von Beanie is a serial Cavalry Hoarder, and will unleash the mounted hordes on me shortly.

In the SOUTH, we are occupying some forward ground. Rest assured we have ZERO intention of trying to defend in the open during the Blizzard. Rather, I expect the Reds to close with my line this turn, then the first Blizzard turn I will retreat again. I should be able to buy a single turn this way. That's all I can do.

In General, here is what I am doing:

1. Defense in Depth: In most places, I have 3-deep forts for now, and in winter quarters I hope to build more behind me.
2. I have built over 100 FORT ZONES; they will never see combat, I will DISBAND them to put more guys in the pool. In fact, I have disbanded 30 or so already, because their hex reached level-2 or 3 fort, and I needed those guys in the pool to create more FORTS.
3. Almost all MOBILE units are in a city. They will be called-on as needed.
4. I have an OKH Infantry Reserve of 1 Corps (3 divisions) for the worst spot. This is at BREST LITOVSK.

That's the plan. Check out a couple examples:

[Q-Ball]

Loss Report: Pre-Winter:

Here is a full loss-report before the winter, for posterity.

I think Soviet losses are a bit light. Mine are also a bit on the light side, and in both cases due to lack of Combat and a modified "Robinsky" defense.

For the record, I have 2.1 mil troops in German Divisions. Let's see what that number is in Spring.

[randallw]

Those hordes in the south look itching to get rolling on you.