The bear and the eagle ComradeP vs JAMiAM

[ComradeP]

That's a good question, thus far the only thing I can find is that damaged ports have less of a zone of control in terms of whether the enemy can or can not move to the port. Riga's zone of control stretches to Kuressare when its fully repaired, so I'm going to ask on the tester forum whether it would also block supply movement. Also keep in mind that the additional MP's supply needs to get to Kuressare when Leningrad is no longer connected to the rail network are quite steep, but I don't think they'll go over 100 (by my calculations they'd be at around 60 MP's).

[ComradeP]

Turn 3 was not very eventful.

Due to the front widening and not having enough troops to hold all of it with a forward deployment, I'll redeploy my lines a bit on turn 4.

In the north, I'm not sure whether making a stand on Kuressare is possible, due to supply limitations, but I'm going to try for a turn. At this point, I can still fairly easily pull everybody out again using naval transport.

[ComradeP]

In the center, I'm doing something that I wouldn't advise anyone to do in their game, but I'm wondering what will happen. The carpet, aside from the units next to the Germans and the units at the back, is mostly composed of units that arrived this turn, they're unready and at around 40% TOE. I'm wondering if they'll rout or shatter. It's something I'm curious about. If only a few shatter and most rout, that would be nice.

[ComradeP]

Quiet sector.

I've pulled almost everybody out of the marshes for now.

[ComradeP]

In the south, I've launched, I believe, 8 attacks, 4 of which were successful. LSSAH got really lucky. The first attack against LSSAH failed by 1 CV point (something like 68 to 69), the second one worked, but the attack after that failed because Axis CV increased more than mine. Two attacks against the Romanians also failed, but others succeeded.

I'll be pulling back more next turn, otherwise I'm just begging for a disaster to happen, a disaster that might already happen next turn, but he might rest his Panzers or be low on fuel.

Motorized divisions are being pulled back to Kiev and Odessa to be set to static (I need at least a level 2 fort for that). Tank divisions will probably move to the rear next turn to rest for a turn or two, before getting back into the fray. I've moved a second army up that will be turned into a pseudo-Tank army like Rokossovsky's.

I changed unit placements slightly after taking the screenshots, to fill the two empty hexes on my side of the Dnestr.

As mentioned in my first post about this turn, supply has been restored to the pocketed units near Stanislav. James might try to pocket the units between Proskurov and the Romanians.

[ComradeP]

Romanian sector. Pretty quiet, I'm launching a few attacks each turn and so is James.

I'm considering whether to use my two pseudo-Tank armies against the Romanians when they cross the Dnestr. They have no realistic way of countering my tanks.

[ComradeP]

Losses were OK. The main annoyance is that my fighters are not flying interception missions to his interdiction missions, so I'm still taking interdiction losses (although not that many, a couple of thousand). The almost 400 recon missions James flies each turn also quickly drain operational readiness as my mediocre pilots swarm to 2 recon planes by the dozens due to interception settings being at 200% (to counter interdiction, which isn't happening thus far).

James is one or two turns ahead in AFV losses due to my counterattacks. Sadly, I couldn't attack a Panzer division this turn.

[ComradeP]

timmyab, I've just heard from Pavel that the port zone of control also stops supply movement, so a stand on Kuressare isn't possible when Riga's port is fixed.

[timmyab]

Oh rats.Back to the drawing board.
Presumably they'll still recieve beachhead supply forcing AGN to make a detour to dig them out and then be able to evac out of the port to Leningrad , might still be worthwhile on a limited scale.

[ComradeP]

Naval movement is also blocked when Riga's port is fixed, so even though they can probably receive beachhead supply in the northern island, they'll probably surrender when attacked.

You could, however, bomb Riga's port. If its effective port level is 8 or lower, you should be able to move units to Kuressare and thus get supply there.

[Encircled]

I'm considering whether I should move units to Kuressare, it could be a thorn in his side during the blizzard. He's advancing north with his mobile units in the AGN area, though, so I don't have much time. Still, if he moves his mobile units there to capture the place, that would be a nice diversion.

Forget all about that in my game versus the AI. Having to counter attack from Tallinn with knackered Pz in the blizzard wasn't much fun. Thank God his supply situation was appalling, and I just managed to stop him taking Riga

[ComradeP]

That's weird, maybe the AI had beachhead supply or the like, which is possible, but Kuressare shouldn't be in normal port supply when Riga's port is fixed based on what Pavel told me and my own observations of Riga's port level/control range and Kuressare's.

[Mynok]

I don't see how he could pocket anything south of Proskurov. Most of his mobile units are ZOC'd, he's got little infantry to punch a hole, and most importantly, there's nothing in Rumania to meet him.

[ComradeP]

A deliberate attack by the German infantry in Bessarabia on the units in rough terrain across a minor river has a chance to succeed, but not a stellar one ,and after that he could use his mobile units to advance 4 hexes to the south from Proskurov, but that would require diverting mobile forces to push south, which is fine with me. He'd trap four additional divisions, but I'd get another turn worth of time. If he routs the units near Stanislav and those end up out of his reach, he'll probably pocket about 4 divisions instead of 8.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
You could, however, bomb Riga's port. If its effective port level is 8 or lower, you should be able to move units to Kuressare and thus get supply there.

I'm starting to think that a bombing campaign against the port of Riga may be the key to holding open the Gulf of Riga for supply and sea transport.Not too sure about the practicalities though, or whether a competent opponent could use the Luftwaffe and massed AA to prevent it.

Edit - Actually I've just realized that the German capture of Tallinn adds further complcations.So I think the idea's a dead duck.

[ComradeP]

Edit - Actually I've just realized that the German capture of Tallinn adds further complcations.So I think the idea's a dead duck.

I believe Leningrad's port precisely nullifies the Tallinn ZOC. The problem will be Helsinki.

Strategic bombing of Helsinki and Riga to hold a supply line open might be possible, but with the reduced strategic bombing damage, I'm not sure how many bombers would be needed and if it would be practical at all. I have my doubts.

[Encircled]

It might well be worth a try

If it works (the AI was flying loads of air resupply to keep his units going), then it can't be ignored by AGN, and any diversion of mech (or even better, infantry) will make Leningrad capture a lot harder.

Certainly worth a few bombers if you can maintain forces in AGN rear

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Strategic bombing of Helsinki and Riga to hold a supply line open might be possible, but with the reduced strategic bombing damage, I'm not sure how many bombers would be needed and if it would be practical at all. I have my doubts.

Yes, and no doubt Leningrad could also be strategically bombed to reduce it's naval ZOC in the Gulf of finland if necessary.I've come to the conclusion that a stand on Saaremaa can only be a minor nuisance to the Axis.Shame.

[mmarquo]

Will someone please explain this concept of bomging Riga or the other ports to keep a supply line open?
 
Thanks

[ComradeP]

From manual section 14.2.3.4:

Every friendly port (Soviet Nationality for Soviet player, Axis nationality for Axis
player, i.e. not captured ports), exerts control over an area that extends out from the port the
number of hexes equal to the port level (number of port factory points). Enemy naval movement cannot enter a hex within that area.

However, if an enemy port’s control area overlaps the friendly port’s control area, they will cancel each other out, allowing both sides to use naval and amphibious (Soviet only) transport. It doesn’t matter how many ports exert control over a hex; as long as one or more from each side exerts control in a hex, they will cancel each other out in that hex.

The range of control in hexes is reduced by the percent of damage to the port. So a port with
a value of 10 that has 20 percent damage will have its control range reduced to 8. All damage
is rounded up, so even one percent of damage will result in the reduction of one hex of range.

Riga needs at least a port ZOC level of 10 (undamaged state, I thought it was 9, but it needs 10) in order to block Kuressare's port. Leningrad's undamaged port ZOC should nullify Helsinki's and Tallinn's, so if you bomb Riga and inflict even 1% damage that sticks for the turn, your units in Kuressare are in port supply. Otherwise, they should still be in beachhead supply. You could attach some BAD air bases to the PVO command (if that's possible) and place a few on the Estonian islands to bomb Riga each turn. In case your opponent realizes what's going on and starts bombing Leningrad (I suggest packing the Kuressare and Leningrad port hexes with AA, even though it seems mostly powerless, in Leningrad it gets to fire more often due to the urban modifier so it should be able to hit something), you could bomb Helsinki and Tallinn from Leningrad.

It does seem the idea is less doomed than I initially thought.

The idea is not really much of a risky gamble for the Soviets. If it doesn't work and you lose the forces there, you will still have tied up about a corps worth of Germans probably. He'll also need about a corps or a mountain division in Virtsu or the hex west of it (if he gets there) to prevent you from walking out of there in the blizzard. Provided you give the Army HQ on the islands a lavish amount of sapper regiments, you might be able to human wave the fort levels down from 5 to a more manageable level.