Thunder in the East - Soviet team

[Flaviusx]

Ugggh. I'm not fond of the MD. Their capacity is crap. Basically enough to cover an army and a half. Or two half assed armies, and I hate forming half assed armies. Inefficient use of leadership.

And the Soviets don't have a ton of good Front leaders initially.

I'd just as soon wait until a real Front arrives than attach STAVKA units to a MD.

Kharkov turns into the Southern Urals MD, btw.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
In most of my Soviet games, STAVKA armies are usually stronger than other armies because they don't get brutalized at the frontline each turn. STAVKA armies allow for flexibility.

Sorry I must have misunderstood.I thought you were advocating that they should be placed in the front line.Placing some of them in reserve behind front boundaries is fine by me.

[ComradeP]

The Kharkov M.D. will transform into Southern Urals military district when Kiev is captured, so attaching anything to it doesn't seem like a good idea as it will be warped to the eastern part of the map.

Moscow M.D. doesn't transform and neither does that defence M.D.

Sorry I must have misunderstood.I thought you were advocating that they should be placed in the front line.Placing some of them in reserve behind front boundaries is fine by me.

They are generally in reserve, but sometimes at the front. My point is that they're both, so even with STAVKA armies at the front, there'll be STAVKA armies in reserve behind it.

Wouldn't be so confident. I am new to WITE and they know it + nerfed swamps can give em a chance to capture Leningrad in 41. My assumption is that they will try it.

If we want to hold Leningrad, we'll hold it. If you feel overwhelmed, you could temporarily assign Northwest Front to someone else until you feel you've become more experienced or until the front becomes more quiet. You could also let someone else manage the initial turns with Northwest Front and then take over. The first turns are crucial. If redmarkus captures Pskov and surroundings by turn 3 or 4, we're in trouble. If he doesn't we're probably going to hold Leningrad.

[Klydon]

Good info on which fronts go active when. Sounds like if a person were to do it with any of them, Bryansk would be the only one worth considering since it stays where it starts. I went with 1 army topped up each.

Slight derail, but I would love to see a better list of which fronts go active when or that they never do, etc.

This team game is going to be interesting to see how it all works out and should be a blast to follow.

[821Bobo]

If we want to hold Leningrad, we'll hold it. If you feel overwhelmed, you could temporarily assign Northwest Front to someone else until you feel you've become more experienced or until the front becomes more quiet. You could also let someone else manage the initial turns with Northwest Front and then take over. The first turns are crucial. If redmarkus captures Pskov and surroundings by turn 3 or 4, we're in trouble. If he doesn't we're probably going to hold Leningrad.

I really don't feel overwhelmed, only wanna to point out that my lack of experience can cause mistakes(of course not intended). At least it will by more historically accurate. [:D]

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Klydon
Slight derail, but I would love to see a better list of which fronts go active when or that they never do, etc.

It's in manual 7.6.6

Leningrad MD (at start) to Northern Front (6/41) to Leningrad Front (9/41)

Volkhov Front (12/41) to 3rd Baltic Front (4/44)

Baltic MD (at start) to Northwestern Front (6/41) to 2nd Baltic Front (10/43)

Reserve Front (at start) to Kalinin Front (10/41) to 1st Baltic Front (10/43)

Karkhov MD to Southern Ural MD (when Kiev is captured)

Western MD (at start) to Western Front (6/41) to 3rd Belorussian Front( 4/44)

Orel MD (at start) to Bryansk Front (8/41) then disbanded (10/43) then reformed as 2nd
Belorussian (2/44)

Kiev MD (at start) to Southwestern Front (6/41) to Stalingrad Front (7/42) to Don Front (10/42)
to Central Front (2/43) to Belorussian Front (10/43) to 1st Belorussian Front (2/44)

Southwestern Front (reformed 10/42) to 3rd Ukrainian Front (10/43)
150

Odessa MD (at start) to Southern Front (6/41) to Southeastern Front (8/42) to Stalingrad Front
(10/42) to Southern Front (1/43) to 4th Ukrainian Front(10/43)

North Caucasus MD (at start) to Caucasus Front (11/41) to Crimea Front (2/42) to North
Caucasus Front (1/43)

Transcaucasus MD (at start) to Transcaucasus Front (11/41)

Steppe Front (6/43) to 2nd Ukrainian Front (10/43)

Voronezh Front (6/42) to 1st Ukrainian Front(10/43)

[Klydon]

That would be the original list that I know about. It mentions nothing about Moscow Defense zone front never becoming mobile and a note could have been stuck in there that the Moscow MD and some of the other MD's that Flav and ComradeP mention that never become fronts. 

[cpt flam]

Hi everybodi
must tell you that I will no longer play with you taking command in another team
Comrad P you can attrib to anther player when necessity become
great game to all[;)]
will look at your adventure

[Hagleboz]

If Cpt Flam is out I would love to jump in and take his place as the new alternate. I think this experiment sounds really exciting and I would love to be part of the action. I have a lot of experience playing against the AI (most of the smaller scenarios and have been playing two GC's, one as the German and one Russian) and have also played p vs p in couple of the smaller scenarios as well.

ComradeP pm sent. Crossing my fingers to get on the Roster.

[randallw]

In practice I have not seen the Moscow M.D become a Front even when the Germans moved within 10 hexes.

[ComradeP]

They (Moscow M.D. and the Moscow Defence Zone M.D.) should only disband if forced to retreat after October 1941.

Hagleboz, you and OSO (who also contacted me) are officially on the bench/the first alternates. With a bit of luck, once Soviet position 5 opens up in both this game and the other one, you'll both be able to participate.

[Hagleboz]

Excellent, thank you.  I will be watching events closely, good luck comrades!

[ComradeP]

Right, turn 1 received from Bob.

The German opening moves are "the good, the bad and the ugly". AGC's pocket is good. AGN's "pocket" is of the "eh?" type, easily opened and quite bad (most units will still probably be toast by turn 3 if they're pocketed again, but still). AGS's opening move, although it will trigger Romanian activation, is ugly because the Axis spearheads are cut off.

None of the non-"easy capture" cities have been captured aside from Tarnopol (which is sort of doomed).

For turn 1, I'll personally manage the units in or near the pockets and then send the turn to the front commanders for checkerboarding and then wait to receive them back and provide the finishing touches. I'd like to do everything myself, but that's not what I'm here for.

I will take control of all motorized and Tank divisions unless otherwise specified for the moment, though, as my experience thus far in my game with James has taught me they can be quite useful if not wasted.

[821Bobo]

With only 4 tank divisions is impossible for AGS to connect with Romanians and make decent pocket.

[ComradeP]

Yup, so they can only cut the rail lines, preventing evacuation by rail.

I'm rather amazed by redmarkus' opening moves. Maybe he doesn't care that his pocket was sloppy, but I don't really see how an experienced player could screw up a pocket like this, as the pocket in the AGN area is possibly even easier to create than the one in the AGC area.

I think I'll do all of the opening moves in the north myself, mostly because I'd be sending a save so you can move maybe two dozen units that are not in a pocket or behind the German spearhead. There are more units to be moved around in the center and south, as well as more room for error. I hope you won't mind if I do the opening moves in the Baltic states myself, 821Bobo. You'll get control back on turn 2. There's not a lot of room for error and redmarkus' opening moves was so mediocre that I'd like to take advantage of it as best as I can.

[Mynok]

I actually am leaning towards Jamiam's opening in the AGN now, where everything is routed out and no pocket on turn one. Pockets slow infantry but kill units. In the north, slowing infantry is death. Killing units is less important than elsewhere. The Axis MUST get the infantry deep and fast there in order to have a chance at Leningrad.

[ComradeP]

He did pocket some units, but not all of them. Every extra unit NW Front has will help it. I wouldn't call James' progress thus far rapid at the moment, he's slower than other people who did pocket the units south of Riga.

In fact, given the scarcity of units in that area at the start, I'd be inclined to say that the AGN area is the primary area where I'd always try to create a pocket. There's too much to lose when you don't trap most of those forces. The Soviets can give up the Baltic states with or without a fight, but even a limited checkerboard can slow them down significantly.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I actually am leaning towards Jamiam's opening in the AGN now, where everything is routed out and no pocket on turn one. Pockets slow infantry but kill units. In the north, slowing infantry is death. Killing units is less important than elsewhere. The Axis MUST get the infantry deep and fast there in order to have a chance at Leningrad.

I am of the opinion that the whole North of the Pripet marshes (except for the Bialystok pocket of course), should just be routed in the interest of speed. There are a few units here and there you may as well pocket, but that shouldn't be the priority. I agree with that. Aside from that one Tank Div south of Kaunus, the units up there are all dreck anyway.

AGS, though, I haven't seen a reason yet NOT to form a Big Lvov/Kovel pocket combo.

[Klydon]

I think strategy may be evolving for the AGN area as I think you can still have some of your cake and eat it too in that it is not necessary to rout everything out. The rules changes that routed units can't be railed out anymore also need to be looked at from a strategy standpoint in that there might be a pile of routed units someplace and rather than intentionally push them some more (makes them harder to reach the next turn), they might get left alone a bit since they are not going too far anyway. 

[ComradeP]

After a delay, the first turn was completed solely by me as after thinking about it, the front commanders would've only had a dozen or so, maybe two dozen units to move themselves, so it would take more time to send the save around than to simply do it myself.