Soviet Rifle Brigades?

[Zoetermeer]

Hi all,

Is it a good idea, from September '41 on, to combine Soviet rifle brigades into rifle divisions? In September you start getting significant numbers of rifle brigades as reinforcements, and I'm wondering how people handle them.

Also -- what's the best way to employ tank brigades? You can't build them up into larger formations this early on, but they probably aren't strong enough to do much.

[randallw]

Remember that combining brigades can't be done until 1942.

I'm figuring that brigades should be moved into hexes that already have a dug in division; a lone brigade on defense will retreat/rout/shatter almost surely.

[Zoetermeer]

The manual says that "two or more rifle brigades can buildup into a rifle division" starting on June 22 '41 (section 7.5.3.1).

[Senno]

The manual is outdated. The change to the '42 date was made with beta 4 or 5. I can't recall which, but it's in the patch notes.

Which version are you running?

[Klydon]

To answer the question as it stands, yes you are better off to combine them imo. 

[Zoetermeer]

I'm running the latest version, so I guess I won't have to worry about how to combine them until '42.

[Cad908]

For what it is worth, this was the approach I followed in my latest game.

As they came in, I stacked them up in the rear, set their TOE to 50%, really easy to do in mass with the commanders report, and did NOT set them to refit. I did this to earmark all my Soviet replacement infantry to front line divisions to keep them up to a reasonable strength for defense and my blizzard counter attacks. The brigades just sat in the rear along a rail line for months just training up a little bit.

When mud started to hit in March 1942 and I finally had some armament reserves, I set the all the brigades to 75% TOE and then put them on REFIT. Over several turns, they build up quite nicely. In May 1942 the Soviet player can convert (buildup) them to an infantry division. If you use two of the 75% rifle brigades, you will form the a division 90-95% of its TOE. If you use 3 rifle brigades to form a division, it will be 105 - 110 % of its toe.

This is ok, but I really do not need many, if any more divisions. When June 1942 rolls in, you can take 2 rifle divisions and 1 rifle brigade and form an Infantry Corps. I will use up most of the rifle brigades forming Corps, which are the key to any Soviet offensive. Some of the naval brigades will not buildup, and I just set them aside for reserve or if I need to build up a fortified line, they can still dig.

[Klydon]

I would point out that given everything else the same, that 2 rifle divisions + 1 rifle brigade formation into corps is going to be weaker than 3 rifle divisions. 

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I would point out that given everything else the same, that 2 rifle divisions + 1 rifle brigade formation into corps is going to be weaker than 3 rifle divisions. 

Initially yes.

But they will fill out to 100% TOE on refit.

Its cheaper admin point wise to use a brigade to make a Corps. Instead of having to make extra divisions.

[Cad908]

Klydon,

Yes that's true. But once formed, a corps is a corps. I am almost through May 1942 in my current game, and the infantry TOE for my divisions are near 100%. Squads are fine, but they still are lacking some of the "heavy" elements mortar's, machine guns, artillery pieces, and those come on line very slowly. A corp formed with 2 divisions and 1 brigade will fill out its infantry component very quickly. If I were going to build an infantry corps, I would always create 2 divisions and 1 brigade, this costs 25 AP's, versus 30AP's for 3 divisions.

It is really individual taste for sure, but I would only in an extreme emergency deploy the brigades to front line armies. They count the same as division for stacking, and I have enough trouble with map clutter as it is.

[jomni]

Oh interesting to know about the AP savings. But too late as I have combined all my Rifle Brigades in 1941.  I only used 2 brigades per division and let it fill out with replacements.

[Klydon]

Yep, good to know about the changes as far as forming Rifle corps (the AP savings mainly). Brigades are still useful to hold secondary positions and keep forts from degrading.