Winter Idea......Comment

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
There are several blizzard threads in the development forums, and Joel has made some pretty dramatic suggestions for changes that are being discussed and debated at the moment.

Are the changes coming soon? Because, as you may see from the above screenshot, I will need to defend Moscow in blizzard, as German!! HELP!!!!!!!!! [:D]

Your screwed, but you got the Finns, so might actually have some prayer. Slim, but maybe not. And you have a bunch of cities not garrisoned, you are breeding partisans which will cause you oh so much trouble come winter.

And that is a super long line to defend come Blizzard. Should be fun to watch.

[karonagames]

Are the changes coming soon? Because, as you may see from the above screenshot, I will need to defend Moscow in blizzard, as German!! HELP!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, have to invoke the NDA stuff here, but some of the proposals made me fall off my chair.

All of them need testing, so how long is a piece of string....

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Sorry, have to invoke the NDA stuff here, but some of the proposals made me fall off my chair.

Snow powered Panzers? Please please please I need those.... [&o]

Any bets on whether I will be able to keep Moscow thru blizzard? I should probably open another thread about this...

[2ndACR]

As long as they don't get isolated, you should be okay. Get them isolated and your toast.

I always knew the Devs listened.

Your okay Oleg, my thread, but it falls within the heading if you ask me. It is about the blizzard. Hope your not going to trust your allies in no way except the mountain boys.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
There are several blizzard threads in the development forums, and Joel has made some pretty dramatic suggestions for changes that are being discussed and debated at the moment.

Are the changes coming soon? Because, as you may see from the above screenshot, I will need to defend Moscow in blizzard, as German!! HELP!!!!!!!!! [:D]

Your screwed, but you got the Finns, so might actually have some prayer. Slim, but maybe not. And you have a bunch of cities not garrisoned, you are breeding partisans which will cause you oh so much trouble come winter.

And that is a super long line to defend come Blizzard. Should be fun to watch.

I always wish the Finns could reach South to cover the Reservoir at their extreme SE corner. As that's where I have the most difficulty generally. I usually stick a corps up there of 16yh Army and watch them melt away. And have to relieve the corps completely with whatever 4 infantry divisions that I can scrape up. There's not a decent town for them to shelter in within 100 miles or so. That areas a real nightmare in winter. And having to move through swamps means movement through the area takes 2 turns minimum, out in the cold. Brrrr.......

At least the Finns can take care of themselves quite easily. Might be able to attack enough to relieve pressure. But there's not much reason for the Russian to reinforce. The Finns can't even pretend to threaten anything strategically, as the Russian knows they are near the end of their leash.

And I have a real issue with this. If the Finns held Leningrad and far, far more than they had ever hoped, would they have stopped in the middle of nowhere and refused to budge? "Sorry, Heinz. I can't go one step east of this tree in this forest." The Russian player can easily strip the extreme north of forces, knowing that after that last city is captured by the Finns, that's it for them. Knowing that the Finns can't throw a left-hook towards Yaroslavl/Ivanho is a tremendous advantage. Thin the forces out, the Finns aren't going anywhere.....

Should be an entertaining winter, for sure.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Senno
And I have a real issue with this. If the Finns held Leningrad and far, far more than they had ever hoped, would they have stopped in the middle of nowhere and refused to budge? "Sorry, Heinz. I can't go one step east of this tree in this forest." The Russian player can easily strip the extreme north of forces, knowing that after that last city is captured by the Finns, that's it for them. Knowing that the Finns can't throw a left-hook towards Yaroslavl/Ivanho is a tremendous advantage. Thin the forces out, the Finns aren't going anywhere.....

That is exactly what my opponent did, there is not a single Sov unit opposite Finns in the north. He knows they got as far as they possibly could, so he has one less sector to worry about.

Kinda gamey, but I am not complaining as I stripped everything north of this Finnish second limit line of any German unit, concentrating everything in the south. If he pushes too far towards Leningrad, Finns will again come into play.

Yeah, winter in this game could be very interesting.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Senno
And I have a real issue with this. If the Finns held Leningrad and far, far more than they had ever hoped, would they have stopped in the middle of nowhere and refused to budge? "Sorry, Heinz. I can't go one step east of this tree in this forest." The Russian player can easily strip the extreme north of forces, knowing that after that last city is captured by the Finns, that's it for them. Knowing that the Finns can't throw a left-hook towards Yaroslavl/Ivanho is a tremendous advantage. Thin the forces out, the Finns aren't going anywhere.....

That is exactly what my opponent did, there is not a single Sov unit opposite Finns in the north. He knows they got as far as they possibly could, so he has one less sector to worry about.

Kinda gamey, but I am not complaining as I stripped everything north of this Finnish second limit line of any German unit, concentrating everything in the south. If he pushes too far towards Leningrad, Finns will again come into play.

Yeah, winter in this game could be very interesting.

Well, sending your own forces South isn't optional for you. You will have to do so to have a defence in place along the front. You do have the forces available (just) to do a linebacker defense, even being that far forward.

Your opponent hasn't done much better than the AI though. Maybe he won't have an effective winter and you will come out in OK shape for Summer offensive '42.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Senno
Well, sending your own forces South isn't optional for you. You will have to do so to have a defence in place along the front. You do have the forces available (just) to do a linebacker defense, even being that far forward.

This screenshot is couple turns old and it does not show all my forces in the area.

My opponent did what I allowed him to do. Axis player calls the shots in the opening turns and Sov plays in as much as the Axis allows him. Very very few people on the board know how to use Axis forces optimally. I am personally far from that point but I am learning (as can be seen). Other players are even further from perfection than me, but they don't always realize that, they blame the game for their own shortcomings.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
My opponent did what I allowed him to do. Axis player calls the shots in the opening turns and Sov plays in as much as the Axis allows him. Very very few people on the board know how to use Axis forces optimally. I am personally far from that point but I am learning (as can be seen). Other players are even further from perfection than me, but they don't always realize that, they blame the game for their own shortcomings.

Mayhaps your Soviet opponent sucks?

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Senno
Well, sending your own forces South isn't optional for you. You will have to do so to have a defence in place along the front. You do have the forces available (just) to do a linebacker defense, even being that far forward.

This screenshot is couple turns old and it does not show all my forces in the area.

My opponent did what I allowed him to do. Axis player calls the shots in the opening turns and Sov plays in as much as the Axis allows him. Very very few people on the board know how to use Axis forces optimally. I am personally far from that point but I am learning (as can be seen). Other players are even further from perfection than me, but they don't always realize that, they blame the game for their own shortcomings.

Umm, you just said your opponent stripped the forces that were aligned against the Finns. I am not certain that you "allowed" this. It's a strange thing to allow really. Your opponent realizes the extent of the Finns threat, as you have previously acknowledged. And took what he feels is the rational response. It's "kinda gamey" at least, as you have also acknowledged.

Anyway, I wasn't really talking about that screenshot, as regards your future defense situation. Rather your preparations for winter. And that if you don't send those Armies amongst the Finns down South (to where they were in the Screenshot), you'd not have the forces in place to have a defence. When you are that far forward you need the Finns to cover all they can, to relieve your forces so you can have a defene that reaches down to wherever you are in the Crimea and Rostov greater areas.

I think this is the 3rd of 4th time that I have seen you say this in a thread, however. Not really sure how it relates to our little conversation, but whatever.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
Mayhaps your Soviet opponent sucks?

Perhaps. Perhaps everytime Axis plays well it's because Sov player sucks. It cannot possibly be because Axis is actually strong enough to do well in hands of decent player. Perhaps it's some kind of magic so I suck when I play Soviet and lose. But when I play Axis and am doing good then I am suddenly free of suckage and MY opponent sucks. This suckage virus appears to be living in right side of the PC screen.

However everytime Axis does bad, it's NEVER because Axis player sucks, it's always because of some horrible bug or balance problem or some mad insanity with combat resolution.

(I am being a little sarcastic here [;)])

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Senno
Umm, you just said your opponent stripped the forces that were aligned against the Finns. I am not certain that you "allowed" this. It's a strange thing to allow really.

I am not sure we understand each other. By "allowing" I didn't mean any house rules. I meant that he plays in as much as he possibly can given Axis incessant pressure. We don't use any house rules.

The stripping of the Finnish front is not really important, except as a little trick. He did that only after Leningrad was taken and honestly Axis forces advanced in that region till the very edge of the inhabitable universe.

[karonagames]

But it states in the manual that the Axis can't do well - don't you RTFM?

[Oleg Mastruko]

Really, I think situation in my game will be pretty good test. If he pushes me outta Moscow and more.... just thanks to blizzard.... AND if I am unable to capitalize on this very good position in spring 42....

....then count me in among the Axis whiners, I guess. So, we'll see.

[karonagames]

That front line is really weird - what is happening to the long thin salient just south of centre? A long front definitely could impact blizzard defence.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Senno
Umm, you just said your opponent stripped the forces that were aligned against the Finns. I am not certain that you "allowed" this. It's a strange thing to allow really.

I am not sure we understand each other. By "allowing" I didn't mean any house rules. I meant that he plays in as much as he possibly can given Axis incessant pressure. We don't use any house rules.

The stripping of the Finnish front is not really important, except as a little trick. He did that only after Leningrad was taken and honestly Axis forces advanced in that region till the very edge of the inhabitable universe.

Perhaps not.

You are right, there's just not much reason for anyone to go much further, maybe tear up the rail lines. It's just annoying to me that the Soviet player knows the Finns have to stop. And sending 16th Army/4th Panzer up there would be a complete waste, and I'm sure any Russian player would welcome it as you'd end up far away from the VP's east of Moscow and Crimea/Caucausus.

Which is where I imagine you are preparing for your next offensive. If he's still alive that is. You might have forced a complete collapse and a surrender. Being where you were on 27/9....

For the record, I didn't say you (or anyone) sucked. Just that you did well enough that what I see in your screenshot looks like what I do to the AI; a complete rampage. You still had the Finns cavalry unit, and were at the edge of advance with them. Was a grand performance. I fear you took the reverse of what I was saying.

Anyway, is this a Beta 5 game? I'd love to see a complete Beta 5 game to have good infos on the winter outcomes. I know BA and Speedy are playing one, full speed ahead.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

That front line is really weird - what is happening to the long thin salient just south of centre? A long front definitely could impact blizzard defence.

Yes it's pretty weird, I was using pretty specific and strange overall strategy.

That long thin salient was even longer, reminding me of the Venetian mask called Medico della Peste. It's the famous Venetian mask modelled after masks medieval physicians wore, they thought they will scare away the disease... if you've ever been in Venice you know what I am talking about. His mask even has the eye... surrounded troops in Moscow.... and is NOT scaring away the German disease LOL

Take it as my contribution to The Sublime Art of Making Faces With Frontlines in WITE, started by Jamiam and his "Gargoyles" [:D]

[MengJiao]

ORIGINAL: Angelo

If the German side really has NO chance of winning why bother playing the Germans? Bragging that you won because Germany lost the war in June 45 instead of May 45 seems kind of pointless to me. There has to be a 'reasonable' chance for the Germans to win before talking about counting victory point.

The same applies to the Russians. If the Russians have an I win button then bragging that you won the war in April 45 instead of May 45 is again pointless as the Germans can't win regardless of what they do.

Why Play at all? [&:]

Are you some kind of existentialist? Because if you are I'm not falling for that leap of faith stuff.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

That front line is really weird - what is happening to the long thin salient just south of centre? A long front definitely could impact blizzard defence.

Well, his screenshot was from 27/9, so I imagine he rationalized his defense?

And if his game is Beta 5, it would be good data for post-winter, wouldn't it?

[Oleg Mastruko]

Medico della peste in full. Note the Moscow eye and the goatie in the south. I DARE you to draw better frontline face in WITE [:D]

Now the winter comes....