Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! Chez (J) vs. Canoe (A)

[bradfordkay]

Dan, about your idea of sending the Saratoga into the Aleutians... in winter aren't ops looses increased? With the sparse number of carrier a/c the USN has/receives in the very early going couldn't this end up being painful? Or maybe I am just overly conservative with my forces...

[Canoerebel]

BradfordKay: I'm not sure I'm sending Saratoga to NoPac yet (though she is on her way to Seattle). I might wait until March 1, or I might send her up to Kodiak, park her, and perhaps stand down her squadrons. I only need her in the event Steve gets frisky and tries to do some snap invasions of unoccupied islands before I can garrison them.

witpqs: I got itchy fingers and I've sent her back to Pearl (I did that turn early this a.m., so it's too late now.) I think you're right about the KB - I believe Steve was intending to strike again. It will be interesting to see if he tries again tomorrow.

paullus: I haven't decided on my exact strategy in the DEI yet. The Allies will be making the usual stand at Singapore and Soerabaja (the latter augmented by garrisons from surrounding islands). I also intend to be pretty fisky with Force Z and other raiders.

[John 3rd]

Send Sara north. Yes--Ops losses will be higher--but you can REALLY bloody his nose if he makes an early move into the Aleutians. This is something I always fear at the start of a game since I like to get those barren, frozen rocks as early as possible. The is little-to-no chance of Japanese CVs being there to protect a landing force so you could get a cheap, clean victory.

[Nemo121]

Singapore and Soerabaja? Deathtraps both of them.

Stand in southern Sumatra. That's the fulcrum and, most unusually, for fulcrums a self-supporting fortress which won't require you to risk ships resupplying it. It produces 1,000 tons of supply per day. That's enough to keep 10 divisions in supply, build forts and keep your fighter force and a moderate number of torpedo bombers in supply. B-17 raids on Singapore will hurt him too.

Wasting all those troops in Java just doesn't make sense, they can't be supplied, the enemy can land anywhere along the coast and the terrain doesn't favour the defence. In Southern Sumatra you can concentrate your defensive forces at Telboetang (sic ) and the base to the west since only ships smaller than a CA can move upriver into Palembang. It is a massacre waiting to happen --- so long as you keep the enemy slowed up in Malaysia with a smart delaying action defence. I used 3 or 4 Bns to keep the enemy deployed for combat and prevent his tank units racing ahead and it worked quite nicely.

You'll take losses and probably still lose Palembang and Sumatra but you'll cause a lot more damage than just holing up in the deathtraps of Soerabaja and Singapore.

[paullus99]

I'd take Nemo's advice here - based on his experience, you could pull a real surprise move here.

[John 3rd]

Concur with Nemo. Make a determined stand in Southern Sumatra. Who cares about Singapore? If Palembang is seriously damaged by a solid defense the Japanese are severely handicapped.

[Canoerebel]

I hadn't thought of making a stand in Sumatra. I had "assumed" I would need political points to buy the troops in Java to move them to Sumatra, but perhaps that's not true? I think I can move them by air, but that's a long process. I don't think I can put them aboard vessels. I'll give it some thought.

I do think Singapore is pretty important, though, since it prevents the Japanese from moving on Port Blair and into the Bay of Bengal in a big way. As long as the Allies hold Singapore, India is relatively safe. There's a chance the Japanese could move through the Sunda Straits and south of Sumatra, but that's unlikely...and the Allies would see it coming.

Okay, time to give some thought to these options.

[witpqs]

Moving troops by air is pretty long, and it all depends upon how much time your opponent gives you. The biggest problem that I would anticipate these days is with a couple of AAR's where people have gotten 1,200 (my past AAR) or >2,400 AS (IIRC vettim89's AAR) into Palembang, is that IJ players would look to go there quickly to forestall "Fortress Palembang". x3 for the swamp with on-site supply, immune from BB bombardments - definitely 'the good terrain'.

[paullus99]

Actually, if you can hold Sumatra or at least create a major delay, you're going to cover the flanks of two of the autovictory area (India & Australia). Your opponent won't, in my opinion, want to put his forces in a position where you've got a base of operations against his flank. If he's forced to commit major forces to knock you out, they won't immediately be available for whatever he has planned.

Of course, if he jumps at Hawaii, it won't make a huge difference there - but it may give him the pause you need to stablize things.

[Nemo121]

Air transport is a function of distance, time and committed resources.

ALL of the Dutch units in Java can be air-transported to Sumatra without costing any PP. You DO leave behind your heavy weapons though so that needs to be borne in mind. With that said if you dedicate ALL of your on-map transports and most of your patrol planes ( Catalinas etc ) then you can fairly rapidly transport troops. I was moving a regiment in 2 days once I had everything in place.

Transport all of the small stuff using your general purpose transports and commit your few heavy-lift capable transports ( you get some transport versions of heavy bombers in scenario 2 ) to ONLY transport whatever the Catalines and Dakotas can't transport. That is the most efficient use of those few heavy-lift transports.

So, basically two groups.
Group A moves the men, mortars and small stuff and then the dozen or so really heavy-lift planes you get make up group B and move the small artillery pieces.


I also bought out the US Fleet HQ from the Phillipines as well as the US Regiments. I flew out the infantry, let the guns get taken when Manilla fell and then rebuilt the regiments using the supply in Sumatra. Quite efficient really.




Singapore's importance is minimal.... You aren't looking at things correctly IMO.
WHy did Japan go to war? To gain resources.
What MUST Japan do if you are sitting with several divisions of troops on the base which holds the greatest concentration of those resources for which it went to war? It MUST invade.

Sure, Japan could take Singapore and sweep into India ignoring Palembang. If that happens though then two things will happen;
a) I will conclude that your opponent is a VERY poor strategist and is going to be defeated rather easily.

b) he will find himself in a situation where Palembang grows stronger and stronger and more and more difficult to take as he over-extends into India. This will either cause him to pull back from India to take Palembang with overwhelming force OR it will cause a huge diminution in the overall size of his economy, preventing him from expanding it to deal with the war of attrition you'll create.


Don't be so enamoured with the front-line. There are three things which are important for determining the correct strategy and they are, in order of importance....
1. logistics
2. logistics
3. logistics

Logistics have determined that Palembang is the fulcrum of the map and the game. in 41-42. Don't worry about some doomed glory-hound assault into India if your opponent hasn't taken Palembang first. Frankly if he does something so stupid I'd stop reading the AAR because I'd be utterly confident his economy would collapse in 6 months so there'd be no point reading more.

[witpqs]

I just double checked to make sure I have this right - in AE bombers can not transport troops. When I move troops by air I use a) transports, b) flying boats, c) sea planes (there are two squadrons on Java).

What heavy lift transports are you referring to? The Catalina flying boats?

[bradfordkay]

I always buy out the Asiatic Fleet HQ from the Philippines. There is little for them to do after the initial onslaught, and I feel that they are much better off in Australia. I have them in Perth right now in my PBEM...

[Nemo121]

Catalinas etc. 4,000lbs transport weight. Good enough for mountain guns etc...

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Catalinas etc. 4,000lbs transport weight. Good enough for mountain guns etc...

I had good success that way. I was moving more than one unit simultaneously, I never saw a regiment's worth move quite as quickly as ~2 days but pretty quickly.

The real point I wanted to make with my first post on this is 'how long will your opponent give you?' If EHQ decides to invade Palembang during the first few days the build-up will be quite small.

[Nemo121]

Well, there are many CLs and DDs which can be based under fighter cover at Palembang... Remember the opponent will only be able to bring CLs and DDs to the invasion himself so if he does that the Allied CLs, DDs and PTs will be able to get a pretty good shot at the invasion convoy. Also throw in some troops evaccing from Singapore by ship and by the end of the first week there should be a division + of troops there.

It is a matter of committment. Commit to the Palembang strategem fully and you can really build it up quickly. Commit half-heartedly and you will build up slowly and achieve little, which is as it should be.

[Canoerebel]

Gents,

The first major decision of the war - should Lex prosecute a chase vs. the KB replenishment TF NW of Midway, or is the KB too close to chance it?

If the Japanese oilers remain in place or continue their present course NW, Lex should be able to get there a day before the KB. Of course, a shift in course could also result in a miss. More problematically, Lex will end up fairly close to the KB. Steve would give chase and would probably divide the KB into two three-carrier TFs or three two-carrier TFs.

But is he low on fuel? And how big a blow to Japan would be the loss of these oilers? Would it prevent Steve from refueling and raiding the west coast or returning to Pearl?

See map below and tell me what you would do. I'm inclined to roll the dice, but a strong and sensible argument against doing so might persuade me to back off.

P.S. I don't think Steve knows Lex is out there, unless that's a Glen-equipped sub tailing me.

[bradfordkay]

You should know if his Glen has sighted you (TF106 is shadowed by Japanese float plane, or some such in your ops reports).

The KB should not yet be short on fuel, as WITP has it starting the game with full tanks unlike the situation IRL. If he wants to go raiding then he will want to top off first, so that may be what he's up to - or it could just be that the Replenishment TF is headed back to Japan from its starting position. It could be that AE does not have the KB starting with full tanks, but I have not heard of this change from WITP being made. I have never opened AE as the Japanese, so I cannot tell you either way.

So, how valuable is the Lexington to you?

[Cap Mandrake]

Are you loco, senor???

You are going to attack with one carrier and there are 6 Jap carriers between you and Pearl and they will be one days steaming away???? [X(]

Where are you going to go for fuel, Anchorage? They could cut you off if you made for Seattle or SF. You can get to Pearl.

All that for 2-3 TK's and a couple of escorts?

[Canoerebel]

Cap, you're the voice of reason! But don't you ever get the urge to roll the dice? Or, are you thnking: "Yes, I get that urge; and I dismiss it so that I don't lose a carrier a month!"

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Cap, you're the voice of reason! But don't you ever get the urge to roll the dice? Or, are you thnking: "Yes, I get that urge; and I dismiss it so that I don't lose a carrier a month!"

I get crazy ideas all the time....so they increased my medicine again.


Lions and Hyenas fight all the time but this would be one Hyena and 6 Lions, plus you have mostly worthless Brewsters aboard don't you?

In defence of the idea, if you did succeed in stealing the zebra meat it would make the lions REALLY angry and you could taunt them with that annoying hyena laugh.