Amazing AI !!

[garymiboy]

Hi,Guys.

has anyone else come across this?.

I have run a saved game file on 3 occasions for a few minutes..was the tutorial just getting to steinbeck bridge.and Every time the AI has done different moves.anyone doubting the quality of the AI on this awesome game needs to have a serious word with themselves!!
been playing it a while now.and no ther wargame comes close to it for utter realism !!.
congrats you guys at panther. [&o]
dont suppose your considering doing stalingrad with this awesome game engine?

[wodin]

Stalingrad city fighting would have to be squad or platoon scale and I'm not sure if the game can do it....

A similar game made from the ground up for squad\platoon level would be superb and I'd buy straight away...even better if it was Stalingrad.

[garymiboy]

yes now ive thought about it.i think your right... but wouldnt it be great if Panther/matrix got something similar to the command ops engine.that did city battles.. like you i would buy it..and im sure it would be a top seller.as the stalingrad conflict as well as others have always been some of the most popular war areas that are always of high interet..but there hasnt been any game engine that has done it yet.. you cant really call close combat the right engine as its too restricted.and doesnt have the almost complete flexibilty of the command ops engine..would like to know the guys from panthers thoughts on this.and if anything is bieng "kicked about" in the development office ?

[;)]

[Arjuna]

Urban conflict requires great detail. We would need to scale down the unit size to do it properly. It would also require more doctrine to be written to model the street tactics. By and large it boils down to an approach where you fight block by block, if not house by house. At a minimum you would need to go to line platoons with support sections, which is the scale BTW that we are going to use for the military version, should that go ahead. So you never know your luck.

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Urban conflict requires great detail. We would need to scale down the unit size to do it properly. It would also require more doctrine to be written to model the street tactics. By and large it boils down to an approach where you fight block by block, if not house by house. At a minimum you would need to go to line platoons with support sections, which is the scale BTW that we are going to use for the military version, should that go ahead. So you never know your luck.

Dave,

You really have got me very excited with this bit of info....platoon level city fighting...oh my...Stalingrad...holy moley...IF you went ahead with this then I for one will be very very excited wargamer indeed...my favourite scale is tactical platoon or squad...with this engine it would sure be something to experience ...my fingers are crossed.

[wodin]

Actually I'm now on my knees begging...

[OlegHasky]

Look out woodin.. the position youre in is close to dangerous..
Its a one step from MAtrix annoucement, that it will require something more (from the level of knees) than bagging..
The sugestion could be so strong, price so rewarding.. you might find hard to resist[:-]

[wodin]

I'm still on my knees....ready for anything...I have no dignity...for a tactical game

[benpark]

I'll add my name to the list of people interested. Berlin, Stalingrad etc. would be great.

[HappyHedonist]

Wodin, I'm right there with you.  A tactical game with the Command Ops engine would get my money, probably day 1 too.

[Deathtreader]

Sorry guys.......I have to disagree. I'd hate to see this line of games go tactical.
However, to each his own [:)]

Rob.

[wodin]

To each his own...I just love tactical games..though if it is say post Korea I'm out.

I do feel though that if the Military thing goes ahead the game scale will change to platoon. As the core engine will be done already. I doubt Dave would have the time to develop the military sim and continue the Command Ops line. The new engine developed for the military could then be used for a commercial release.

[RayWolfe]

Funny how you guys who have worked so hard to become Generals, wish to be demoted to Corporal!
Perhaps it's the pressure, perhaps you're aware of your own inadequacies, perhaps you want mum to run your life again.
So sad, so sad.

[parmenio]

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
Sorry guys.......I have to disagree. I'd hate to see this line of games go tactical.

Yeah - I'm with you on this one.

This is already at a "lower" level than I prefer but removing the ClickFest by having a competent AI means it has been incredibly enjoyable so far. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is best computer-based wargame I've ever played.

[Phoenix100]

Well, it's not either/or. This is a fantastic game, but tactical games would be fantastic too if they weren't just stupid click-fests. Combat Mission Shock Force, for example, is half-decent, but there's no AI worth speaking of at all, which makes it a bit silly at the end of the day. You have to command each and every unit. If you forget about them then the only thing they can do, basically, is retreat under fire. I would really love to see the AI in BFTB in a tactical environment. You don't need the little sprites etc at all. All those graphics are a waste of time compared to pleasure of watching the AI handle a complex attack in BFTB. If you could do a more detailed map and get that down to squads I think it would be fantastic, with or without beautiful graphics. I'd happily pay the BFTB price for that.

[wodin]

I really don't think the game would become a clickfest...I expect we would be looking say battalion level as the highest level...also knowing how Panther operate they wouldn't make or design a game that was a clickfest....even at platoon level...remember you will still be giving orders at a higher level than a squad most of the time just like you do with companies at the moment...the maps would I epxpect be very detailed...

I envisage the Barrikkady factory battle, with the recently arrived pioneer battalions...that would be a fantastic battle...Island of Fire is a fantastic book and a superb resource which if Dave did make a WW2 platoon level game I'd make the scenario...

[garymiboy]

Wow, seems i got a good topic going here !! [:)]

To me what makes BFTB and its game engine better than anything else about at the moment is 2 things..1,the great AI and 2,the ability to watch everything happen and go straight in and change things,, no other wargame i have played or can think of does this. with the amount of things that can be changed.
As for my stalingrad suggestion. it doesnt have to be just the factory.there were so many battles in and around stalingrad.first of all getting in.which includes crossing the river etc.
just like the "bulge campaign there were so many small battles as we know from the game!!
and same for places like berlin budapest and the list goes on!!
in hindsight this particular game engine probably isnt right for city battles . and we certainly dont need anymore point and click games.loads of them already. but wouldnt it be great if we could possibly get a variation of this awesome game engine that did city sized battles...as i said earlier the only one that comes near is john tillers red victory..i havent played the game but have seen the screenshots.
anyway thats me throwing a few more ideas in the mix [:D]

[Magpius]

Try taking a look at good ol' Tacops.
-still a gem
and got close to what many here have talked about.

[OlegHasky]

The best Stalingrad expierience Ive encountered so far, was delivered by "Battlefront" (DB series)
The scale handed over (covering the whole City) seem to be appropriate, and diving deep enough for BTFB engine (if amended).

Surrounded by smaller scens in the sector, the "grand Stalingrad" scenario would have an instant impact on the series.

However, the drivers of the Panther locomotive seem to have only patriotic railays on their map, almost selfish mindset, and probobly music good enough in their headphones [>:], that their are still far away from taking them off, and hearing the allaround need, even more far away from enering the theater.

This is the rare developer, that show incredible stagnation in its operations regarding their games.

Glad that Italian campagn is on the run for BFTB, althrough not even a footprint of soviet soldier in it, not a shine of the red star, but this have to be consieder as one consolation in the limited Panther world.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

Funny how you guys who have worked so hard to become Generals, wish to be demoted to Corporal!
Perhaps it's the pressure, perhaps you're aware of your own inadequacies, perhaps you want mum to run your life again.
So sad, so sad.

Luckily we both know you aren't taking orders from *anybody* ... except nursie [:D]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx