I DLed the game and read the manual cover to cover. I then spent many hours learning the game through trail and error. My conculsion is that the game sucks.
I love games with this detail, but the AI is just horrible when it comes to conducting carrier operations. I first tried a non-historic first move, 41 campaign. Big mistake. The AI moves most of his stuff out of Pearl. So then I restart and played both as human so the AI cant move stuff out of Pearl. That wasnt any better. I tried 5 different times starting over. The brilliant AI launches 2 massive airstrikes on the airfield and a small one on the ships in port. NOT ONE TORPEDO DROPPED!! I reload and it does the same thing! I do manage to get a few bomb hits on the BBs, but not one sunk in 5 tries. I have a 5 carrier strike force with the best air leader possible.
Screw it, I started 42 campaign. I spent 20 hours moving units around and preparing for an offensive. Well, the inevitable carrier battle occurs....or it should have.
3 allied carrier groups with various other ships enter the Solomons to make a few landings. They engage my land based air from Rabaul, I have like 100 Zero and about 130 Bettys. My land based air does some damage to the carriers, but at MASSIVE AA LOSSES! Its crazy! Not a bid deal, I can handle that. What I cant handle is my 8 heavy carriers nearby sitting on their hands. The allied TFs are well within thier react range, but they just sit there, fine! So, the next turn I send them to the base closest to the allied carriers. My TFs are right next to thier TFs, a big carrier battle, right? Ya, right! We launch a MASSIVE carrier based airstrike, 250+ planes.....The brilliant commander decides the 2 APs next to the carriers is the primary target!!! 250 planes desend on the 2 poor transports, they never had a chance. So, what happened? Nothing! The carrier groups are right next to each other, 1 square away, apparent sending signals to each other, but they sure arent fighting. The surface combat TF I sent along was equally useful.
Suffice to say, after much work the game is off my hard drive. What a steaming pile!
How can you people stand this game?
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
Thank you! Come again!
PacWar is a very difficult game to phantom. It has a VERY steep learning curve, but once you get beyond it, it is very easy.
Your TF's are probably not reacting due to the following...
Your HQ command centre for your Combined Fleet (can be found in searching for HQ's) is probably too far from the frontlines. The closer your HQ command is to the place of action, the better chance that good things will happen (i.e., reaction moves)
Your PP (preparation point) level could be very low. Every time you activate a LCU (land combat unit) move an air group, change an air group mission, change a base's HQ, etc. you use up Preparation Points. PP's are vital to getting your TF's to react. With low PP's (below 100), chances are your TF's will not react to even close enemy attacks.
Your TF leader. Having high aggressiveness will increase the chance that your TF will auto-react.
Now, the Pearl Harbour attack has been one of contraversy since the game was made (10 years ago). It has been modified over time to make it weaker and stronger, as sometimes you get half the fleet sunk, others you just get a few ships damaged. In the up and coming 3.2 we have increased the potency of the Pearl Harbour attack.
Check the G4M and A6M durability. They are VERY vulnerable to enemy CAP and Flak. However, should they get through, they wreak havoc. Flak attacks an aircraft's durability directly. Since the A6M/G4M have such low (historically low as well) durability, it does not take much Flak to knock down a bunch of them. IJN Dive and Torpedo bombers are actually better at engaging strong enemy TF's as they have fairly good durability (and their dogfight is better so they can avoid enemy CAP much more efficiently then a slower G4M).
Air targets have been a 'bug' throughout the game. Sometimes carrier forces attack transports, or airfields, instead of ports and carrier groups. However, this game is very abstracted. YOU may see that carrier TF, but your TF commander might not. Each 'hex' contains about 100 square miles of ocean/land. It is easy to miss (as it was historically, remember the IJN attack on the Neosho during the Coaral Sea when they were searching for the USN Carrier TF!). TF spotting is done by a combination of TF size (i.e., number of ships) as well as TF speed (faster they are, the harder to spot). The Transport TF is Very slow, about 20 kts slower then a Carrier TF. This is probably why the Transport TF was spotted by your Carrier TF and you did not see their Carrier TF.
Also, for 3.2 I am working on creating a 'good' Tutorial scenario that uses the origninal OBC, modified to 3.2 standards. I would also be interested in someone coming up with a revised 2002/2003 3.1/3.2 version of a tutorial if they have the time!
PacWar is a very difficult game to phantom. It has a VERY steep learning curve, but once you get beyond it, it is very easy.
Your TF's are probably not reacting due to the following...
Your HQ command centre for your Combined Fleet (can be found in searching for HQ's) is probably too far from the frontlines. The closer your HQ command is to the place of action, the better chance that good things will happen (i.e., reaction moves)
Your PP (preparation point) level could be very low. Every time you activate a LCU (land combat unit) move an air group, change an air group mission, change a base's HQ, etc. you use up Preparation Points. PP's are vital to getting your TF's to react. With low PP's (below 100), chances are your TF's will not react to even close enemy attacks.
Your TF leader. Having high aggressiveness will increase the chance that your TF will auto-react.
Now, the Pearl Harbour attack has been one of contraversy since the game was made (10 years ago). It has been modified over time to make it weaker and stronger, as sometimes you get half the fleet sunk, others you just get a few ships damaged. In the up and coming 3.2 we have increased the potency of the Pearl Harbour attack.
Check the G4M and A6M durability. They are VERY vulnerable to enemy CAP and Flak. However, should they get through, they wreak havoc. Flak attacks an aircraft's durability directly. Since the A6M/G4M have such low (historically low as well) durability, it does not take much Flak to knock down a bunch of them. IJN Dive and Torpedo bombers are actually better at engaging strong enemy TF's as they have fairly good durability (and their dogfight is better so they can avoid enemy CAP much more efficiently then a slower G4M).
Air targets have been a 'bug' throughout the game. Sometimes carrier forces attack transports, or airfields, instead of ports and carrier groups. However, this game is very abstracted. YOU may see that carrier TF, but your TF commander might not. Each 'hex' contains about 100 square miles of ocean/land. It is easy to miss (as it was historically, remember the IJN attack on the Neosho during the Coaral Sea when they were searching for the USN Carrier TF!). TF spotting is done by a combination of TF size (i.e., number of ships) as well as TF speed (faster they are, the harder to spot). The Transport TF is Very slow, about 20 kts slower then a Carrier TF. This is probably why the Transport TF was spotted by your Carrier TF and you did not see their Carrier TF.
Also, for 3.2 I am working on creating a 'good' Tutorial scenario that uses the origninal OBC, modified to 3.2 standards. I would also be interested in someone coming up with a revised 2002/2003 3.1/3.2 version of a tutorial if they have the time!
I will second everything Jeremy said. This game takes a very long time to learn properly . Actually, the hexes are 100 miles across which translates to about 7900 square miles per hex. That is a lot of ocean/land area.
There are a lot of nuances to this game. Jeremy pointed out most of them. There are a lot of little things that you have to learn about to be effective.
There are a lot of nuances to this game. Jeremy pointed out most of them. There are a lot of little things that you have to learn about to be effective.
-
pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
Ditto, Jeremy and Nomad. "Many hours" are not enough. "Many years" are still not enough. Relax and let it seep in - don't get pissed over every silly thing that happens. This game will never get over all of its idiosyncrasies.
Taken on its own terms, PW is a gas. I have loved this game for over a decade (I once made the mistake of exaggerating that and saying "a decade and a half," but it's really only existed for 12 years).
One piece of advice (and since you're not paying for it, you're definitely getting your money's worth). In order to be successful, you have to play this game very much within the historical constraints of headquarters control. Study where the various fleet and army HQs operated historically, and put them to work in those theaters. Pay attention to the hierarchy of HQs, as well, as it is through these that allocation of the all important preparation points occurs. The whole game revolves around efficient application of the various HQs' preparation points. Lose sight of that and you lose (or, at least, everything gets sloppy). It's a lot of fun trying to freewheel those CV TFs all over the map, but they won't accomplish much of anything operating outside a strictly planned framework of operational objectives and principled execution - within the constraints the game itself imposes on you.
This is one of the things that make this game such a tremendous historical simulation - you succeed or fail, as overall strategic commander, on your ability to organize and direct the campaign strategically, given the conditions the historical commanders faced. The game simulates these marvelously, even though most of us complain bitterly, even after all these years, about the very things you are complaining bitterly about. Welcome to the "Bitterly Complaining PW Players Club."
Believe me, I have learned the hard way (and continue to be an idiot from time to time). The versions of this game that have been produced (the latest few under Jeremy's inspired direction) since Grigsby's old SSI game have further emphasized the command-and-control aspect of this game.
So fire 'er up and let 'er rip. For my money, it's still the biggest kick in strategic wargaming. War in Russia, by the way, isn't very far behind, and GUESS WHAT? Jeremy is about to twist that game's tail one last time, too. Give it a try - it's more than worth the zero dollars it costs ...
Taken on its own terms, PW is a gas. I have loved this game for over a decade (I once made the mistake of exaggerating that and saying "a decade and a half," but it's really only existed for 12 years).
One piece of advice (and since you're not paying for it, you're definitely getting your money's worth). In order to be successful, you have to play this game very much within the historical constraints of headquarters control. Study where the various fleet and army HQs operated historically, and put them to work in those theaters. Pay attention to the hierarchy of HQs, as well, as it is through these that allocation of the all important preparation points occurs. The whole game revolves around efficient application of the various HQs' preparation points. Lose sight of that and you lose (or, at least, everything gets sloppy). It's a lot of fun trying to freewheel those CV TFs all over the map, but they won't accomplish much of anything operating outside a strictly planned framework of operational objectives and principled execution - within the constraints the game itself imposes on you.
This is one of the things that make this game such a tremendous historical simulation - you succeed or fail, as overall strategic commander, on your ability to organize and direct the campaign strategically, given the conditions the historical commanders faced. The game simulates these marvelously, even though most of us complain bitterly, even after all these years, about the very things you are complaining bitterly about. Welcome to the "Bitterly Complaining PW Players Club."
Believe me, I have learned the hard way (and continue to be an idiot from time to time). The versions of this game that have been produced (the latest few under Jeremy's inspired direction) since Grigsby's old SSI game have further emphasized the command-and-control aspect of this game.
So fire 'er up and let 'er rip. For my money, it's still the biggest kick in strategic wargaming. War in Russia, by the way, isn't very far behind, and GUESS WHAT? Jeremy is about to twist that game's tail one last time, too. Give it a try - it's more than worth the zero dollars it costs ...
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
Re: How can you people stand this game?
Don't send your CVs to the base closest to where the enemy CVs are operating, send them to the base the enemy CVs have set as their destination hex. I found this out the hard way in my very first game, when I actually managed to get 2 TFs (4 CVs) parked in the same hex as a TF of IJN CVs for most of two turns, and I couldn't figure out why the opposing flattops were completely ignoring each other. I don't remember what it was that eventually tipped me off, but nowadays my carriers seem to do a tiny bit better (that is to say, if they hit any naval targets at all, they'll go for the juicy ones almost as often as not).Originally posted by swatter555
3 allied carrier groups with various other ships enter the Solomons to make a few landings. They engage my land based air from Rabaul, I have like 100 Zero and about 130 Bettys. My land based air does some damage to the carriers, but at MASSIVE AA LOSSES! Its crazy! Not a bid deal, I can handle that. What I cant handle is my 8 heavy carriers nearby sitting on their hands. The allied TFs are well within thier react range, but they just sit there, fine! So, the next turn I send them to the base closest to the allied carriers. My TFs are right next to thier TFs, a big carrier battle, right? Ya, right! We launch a MASSIVE carrier based airstrike, 250+ planes.....The brilliant commander decides the 2 APs next to the carriers is the primary target!!! 250 planes desend on the 2 poor transports, they never had a chance. So, what happened? Nothing! The carrier groups are right next to each other, 1 square away, apparent sending signals to each other, but they sure arent fighting.
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
Don't give up on it. It's a great foundation for UV and WitP.
As already mentioned, this game has a steep learning curve and has and continues to humble players; especially in the beginning.
On the plus side, it does get better with time.
If you do decise to commit to PW (or any historical game for that matter), this is one instance where doing some solid research and reading on the subject is highly recommended. While I think it can be played without a historical grounding in the air, land, and sea aspects of the Pacific theater (admittedly a big course of study), it can help you play the game better if you have done some study IMHO.
Again on the plus side, there are people here willing to help you and answer your questions. I found them to be invaluable. There also exists a large body of archived, old BBS forum material as well as a "player built" strategy guide. Highly recommended. I found both to be very helpful in improving my play as well as my understanding on the game mechanics.
Hang in there.
As already mentioned, this game has a steep learning curve and has and continues to humble players; especially in the beginning.
On the plus side, it does get better with time.
If you do decise to commit to PW (or any historical game for that matter), this is one instance where doing some solid research and reading on the subject is highly recommended. While I think it can be played without a historical grounding in the air, land, and sea aspects of the Pacific theater (admittedly a big course of study), it can help you play the game better if you have done some study IMHO.
Again on the plus side, there are people here willing to help you and answer your questions. I found them to be invaluable. There also exists a large body of archived, old BBS forum material as well as a "player built" strategy guide. Highly recommended. I found both to be very helpful in improving my play as well as my understanding on the game mechanics.
Hang in there.
-
swatter555
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:06 am
Thank you all for the help. I see you all know the frustration and do not begrudge me for my outburst.
I didnt really un-install the game, but was very tempted. I really do enjoy the game and those tips might make the game bearable. Also, WIR(Second Front) is my favorite game of all time, which is how I came to PACWAR.
Also a little side note about the size of each hex and how hard it is to find enemy fast carrier forces. There is validity to your points, but you must also realize these are one week turns. 2 opposing forces should be able to find each other in a week.
One last question, though. Why is it some land units will not load onto transports and some wont even transfer. I understand about the China HQ units, but why other units?
I didnt really un-install the game, but was very tempted. I really do enjoy the game and those tips might make the game bearable. Also, WIR(Second Front) is my favorite game of all time, which is how I came to PACWAR.
Also a little side note about the size of each hex and how hard it is to find enemy fast carrier forces. There is validity to your points, but you must also realize these are one week turns. 2 opposing forces should be able to find each other in a week.
One last question, though. Why is it some land units will not load onto transports and some wont even transfer. I understand about the China HQ units, but why other units?
What I recall is that some of the Australian and US land units can not be moved out of the country because they represent the local "Home Guard" units raised during the war to provide local defense. See page 12 of the GGPW Strategy Guide dated 10 Oct 96. You can move them around in-country however.
FYI, see Rich's website for great PW items including the guide and links to the archived forums. It's a great place to start.
See http://home.earthlink.net/~tmflood/page2.html
Good luck.
Ray
FYI, see Rich's website for great PW items including the guide and links to the archived forums. It's a great place to start.
See http://home.earthlink.net/~tmflood/page2.html
Good luck.
Ray
-
swatter555
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:06 am
Originally posted by RayM
What I recall is that some of the Australian and US land units can not be moved out of the country because they represent the local "Home Guard" units raised during the war to provide local defense. See page 12 of the GGPW Strategy Guide dated 10 Oct 96. You can move them around in-country however.
FYI, see Rich's website for great PW items including the guide and links to the archived forums. It's a great place to start.
See http://home.earthlink.net/~tmflood/page2.html
Good luck.
Ray
Thank you
-
pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
One last thing, swatter, I don't consider PW to be a "foundation" for UV and WITP. I think of PW as a phenomenon all in itself. The UV-WITP line will be legendary (and I believe that Matrix has plans for sequels already), but PW had its own design characteristics, its own method of simulating history, and its own flavor of gaming that will never be reproduced.
I will play PW even after UV has been perfected and WITP has become the "big dawg." It has its own charm and atmosphere that cannot be replaced.
I will play PW even after UV has been perfected and WITP has become the "big dawg." It has its own charm and atmosphere that cannot be replaced.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
-
MainiacJoe
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:47 pm
Certainly a competent air search will turn up an enemy task force in a 100-mile area. The other thing to think about though is that since the turn covers a whole week, the two TFs might not be in the hex on the same day. If the enemy TF was there on Tuesday, and you show up on Thursday when the bad guys are already halfway back to their base, it doesn't matter how good your search is.Also a little side note about the size of each hex and how hard it is to find enemy fast carrier forces. There is validity to your points, but you must also realize these are one week turns. 2 opposing forces should be able to find each other in a week.
I've had my share of frustrations, too. But since learning about WWII Pacific has been my hobby for over 20 years, I am really motivated to learn this game.
-
Culiacan Mexico
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Bad Windsheim Germany
Re: How can you people stand this game?
Originally posted by swatter555
How can you people stand this game?
After a few hundred/thousand hours it will start to grow on you.
"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lig
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
Of course, that single TF does not know that there is an enemy TF in that particular HEX, so their air search is not dedicated to just 1 1000 square mile hex, but many MANY 1000 square mile hexes.Originally posted by MainiacJoe
Certainly a competent air search will turn up an enemy task force in a 100-mile area. The other thing to think about though is that since the turn covers a whole week, the two TFs might not be in the hex on the same day. If the enemy TF was there on Tuesday, and you show up on Thursday when the bad guys are already halfway back to their base, it doesn't matter how good your search is.
I've had my share of frustrations, too. But since learning about WWII Pacific has been my hobby for over 20 years, I am really motivated to learn this game.
to be quite honest, it can be frustrating.
however, when you do it correct (like, some cv's ith somepp's and a bit of luck, you really enjoy the aval or carrier battles.
no, if you loook at the historical fights, you'll also see that 2 opposing carriers within each other's reach don't always score hits or spot ach other.
Take corral sea, for instance, the US suunk a CVL (shoo or Zuiho i think) with a lot of overill and superly ignored Shokaku and Zuikaku a few miles away....).
The japs found them but didn't sink them!.
you have to deserve naval/carrier battles...
on your commet about WIR, i feel the same inverted ! i love PAC and have played many campaigns on WIR but with so less fun ...
de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum est.
just carry on.
however, when you do it correct (like, some cv's ith somepp's and a bit of luck, you really enjoy the aval or carrier battles.
no, if you loook at the historical fights, you'll also see that 2 opposing carriers within each other's reach don't always score hits or spot ach other.
Take corral sea, for instance, the US suunk a CVL (shoo or Zuiho i think) with a lot of overill and superly ignored Shokaku and Zuikaku a few miles away....).
The japs found them but didn't sink them!.
you have to deserve naval/carrier battles...
on your commet about WIR, i feel the same inverted ! i love PAC and have played many campaigns on WIR but with so less fun ...
de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum est.
just carry on.
Ben
Verzage ni
Verzage ni
-
Culiacan Mexico
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Bad Windsheim Germany
Originally posted by Skyros
So thats whats on my back!
"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lig
-
Culiacan Mexico
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Bad Windsheim Germany
Re: How can you people stand this game?
A suggestion:Originally posted by swatter555
I love games with this detail, but the AI is just horrible when it comes to conducting carrier operations. I first tried a non-historic first move, 41 campaign. Big mistake. The AI moves most of his stuff out of Pearl. So then I restart and played both as human so the AI cant move stuff out of Pearl. That wasnt any better. I tried 5 different times starting over. The brilliant AI launches 2 massive airstrikes on the airfield and a small one on the ships in port. NOT ONE TORPEDO DROPPED!! I reload and it does the same thing! I do manage to get a few bomb hits on the BBs, but not one sunk in 5 tries. I have a 5 carrier strike force with the best air leader possible.
Start a new game Allied Computer, Max Help Allied (of course), under scenarios choose other campaigns, hit accept setup, from the next menu select ‘B’ Allied AI, and Historical First Move ‘No’.
Go to Tokyo and change all the aircraft on C, D, E, and F to NI (Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, and Soryu) this will stop them from attacking airfields. Create TF #1, Air Combat, Auto Select No, Port, add ships C, D, E, and F to this Task Force.
Set destination Pearl Harbor, ‘F’ set stand Off Range to ‘1’, Return to Home Port, and Ships in Port.
Select a leader for your task force (Yamaguchi ?).
Save
End your turn and check the results. Any ships sunk?
Reload and try a few times. Any ships sunk?
"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lig
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
If you want to see how to get TF's to fight other TF's watch the AI. I have run many AI vs. AI games to test scenarios, and notice that when they comitt to battle, they really fight it out.
You will rarely ever get 2 TF's to fight if they are both sent to the same destination (carrier TF's that is, surface TF's have no problem in fighting). What makes carrier TF's fight, and fight well (against good targets) are REACTION MOVES.
Set up a base of operations, a lot of Patrol groups, a good TF leader (high aggressiveness) with a lot of supply, fuel a close HQ (possibly move HQ to TF) and a lot of PP's. Set a few carrier TF's on Reaction, and specify a range that will cover a hotzone. When your opponent does a major operation (even a minor one) your TF's will react like crazy. When a TF reacts, it primarily attacks (better chances then sending it to a base) to the TF it reacts to. However, should they be counterattacked by an enemy TF, and survive, chances are that you will counter attack their counter attack (seen waves and waves of multiple TF's engage each other in PacWar when the AI uses reaction).
If you really think about all of the major carrier battles of WW2 they generally are based on one sides reaction to another.
Coral Sea - US CV TF reacts to IJN invasion force
Midway - US CV TF reacts to IJN invasion force
Santa Cruz - US CV TF reacts to IJN CV TF
Marinanas - IJN CV TF reacts to USN invasion force
Setting up reaction TF's tends to be a under-used tactic by PacWarriors, as setting them up correctly requires a lot of work (to get all of the above requirements), and may not pay off (should they not meet all of the requirements), but when it does it REALLY works.
You will rarely ever get 2 TF's to fight if they are both sent to the same destination (carrier TF's that is, surface TF's have no problem in fighting). What makes carrier TF's fight, and fight well (against good targets) are REACTION MOVES.
Set up a base of operations, a lot of Patrol groups, a good TF leader (high aggressiveness) with a lot of supply, fuel a close HQ (possibly move HQ to TF) and a lot of PP's. Set a few carrier TF's on Reaction, and specify a range that will cover a hotzone. When your opponent does a major operation (even a minor one) your TF's will react like crazy. When a TF reacts, it primarily attacks (better chances then sending it to a base) to the TF it reacts to. However, should they be counterattacked by an enemy TF, and survive, chances are that you will counter attack their counter attack (seen waves and waves of multiple TF's engage each other in PacWar when the AI uses reaction).
If you really think about all of the major carrier battles of WW2 they generally are based on one sides reaction to another.
Coral Sea - US CV TF reacts to IJN invasion force
Midway - US CV TF reacts to IJN invasion force
Santa Cruz - US CV TF reacts to IJN CV TF
Marinanas - IJN CV TF reacts to USN invasion force
Setting up reaction TF's tends to be a under-used tactic by PacWarriors, as setting them up correctly requires a lot of work (to get all of the above requirements), and may not pay off (should they not meet all of the requirements), but when it does it REALLY works.
-
Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
Here is a checklist for increasing your chances of having sucessful REACTION MOVES.
#1. Have your base of operations (TF home base) close to the Hotzone.
#2. Have your TF HQ based at the base of operations (possibly move HQ to your main CV TF)
#3. Put a lot of patrol groups (and patrol bomber groups, SBD, B17, etc..) in and around the hotzone.
#4. Make your zone as small as possible (overlapping the target base(s) but if it extends too far, you will have your TF engaging well into enemy territory)
#5. Get a highly aggressive TF leader (a high air rating is required as well)
#6. Keep your base of operations in high supply.
#7. Save up Preparation Points.
Here are the reasons...
#1. The closer you are, the shorter you have to react. I notice that shorter reaction ranges (around 8) usually pay off more then longer ones.
#2. The closer your HQ is to battle, the better chances are for your TF to lanuch a full strike when engaged, as well as increasing the chance of a sucessful REACTION.
#3. Spotting an enemy TF once, with one Patrol group usually won't cut it for PacWar. Inundate the area with patrol groups (your best planes are the PBY/H6K/H8K, but dive and torpedo bombers, plus the B-17, and possibly the Hudson, act as recon bombers)
#4. Answered in #1. Shorter the zone, higher chance of a favourable REACTION
#5. Aggressive leaders may become dangerous (start engaging into enemy territory!) but they give you a higher chance in engaging enemy TF's. This is what aggressiveness does.
#6. High supply leads to high Preparation Points
#7. High Preparation Points increase your TF's readiness, wich increases its chance of interception as well as increases the size of the strike groups.
THINGS TO FIGHT AGAINST REACION.
The primary thing that an opponent can do to fend off enemy reaction moves is to do with AIR ZONES. You can see enemy and friendly air zones by pressing ZONE in the main menu (gives you friendly Air Zones) and by pressing UTIL in the main menu then AIR ZONES (gives you enemy Air Zones). You will see where they overlap, where you are strong and where you are weak. You will not have a TF react in a weak or non-existent friendly air zone. Strong enemy air zones will directly fight against your friendly air zones. Bringing in patrol groups and bomber groups into the region will help sway zones into your favour.
Usually REACTION moves take place on the borders of zones. So be aware that if you may react to an emeny TF, they may be able to react to yours. Watch friendly and enemy AIR ZONES to see BOTH your possible areas of reaction, as well as your opponents.
Also, your TF may NOT react, even if your opponent is in patrol range (i.e., has been spotted), and is within the zone of your reaction TF (even if it meets all of the above requirements from #1-6), primarily because they are operating under THEIR zone of control. Your zone may be so weak that your TF will not leave port, even though it appears that you have met all of the 1-6 requirements. WATCH THE ZONES! Knowing the extent of your and enemy zones is important to knowing the limitations of your REACTION attacks.
#1. Have your base of operations (TF home base) close to the Hotzone.
#2. Have your TF HQ based at the base of operations (possibly move HQ to your main CV TF)
#3. Put a lot of patrol groups (and patrol bomber groups, SBD, B17, etc..) in and around the hotzone.
#4. Make your zone as small as possible (overlapping the target base(s) but if it extends too far, you will have your TF engaging well into enemy territory)
#5. Get a highly aggressive TF leader (a high air rating is required as well)
#6. Keep your base of operations in high supply.
#7. Save up Preparation Points.
Here are the reasons...
#1. The closer you are, the shorter you have to react. I notice that shorter reaction ranges (around 8) usually pay off more then longer ones.
#2. The closer your HQ is to battle, the better chances are for your TF to lanuch a full strike when engaged, as well as increasing the chance of a sucessful REACTION.
#3. Spotting an enemy TF once, with one Patrol group usually won't cut it for PacWar. Inundate the area with patrol groups (your best planes are the PBY/H6K/H8K, but dive and torpedo bombers, plus the B-17, and possibly the Hudson, act as recon bombers)
#4. Answered in #1. Shorter the zone, higher chance of a favourable REACTION
#5. Aggressive leaders may become dangerous (start engaging into enemy territory!) but they give you a higher chance in engaging enemy TF's. This is what aggressiveness does.
#6. High supply leads to high Preparation Points
#7. High Preparation Points increase your TF's readiness, wich increases its chance of interception as well as increases the size of the strike groups.
THINGS TO FIGHT AGAINST REACION.
The primary thing that an opponent can do to fend off enemy reaction moves is to do with AIR ZONES. You can see enemy and friendly air zones by pressing ZONE in the main menu (gives you friendly Air Zones) and by pressing UTIL in the main menu then AIR ZONES (gives you enemy Air Zones). You will see where they overlap, where you are strong and where you are weak. You will not have a TF react in a weak or non-existent friendly air zone. Strong enemy air zones will directly fight against your friendly air zones. Bringing in patrol groups and bomber groups into the region will help sway zones into your favour.
Usually REACTION moves take place on the borders of zones. So be aware that if you may react to an emeny TF, they may be able to react to yours. Watch friendly and enemy AIR ZONES to see BOTH your possible areas of reaction, as well as your opponents.
Also, your TF may NOT react, even if your opponent is in patrol range (i.e., has been spotted), and is within the zone of your reaction TF (even if it meets all of the above requirements from #1-6), primarily because they are operating under THEIR zone of control. Your zone may be so weak that your TF will not leave port, even though it appears that you have met all of the 1-6 requirements. WATCH THE ZONES! Knowing the extent of your and enemy zones is important to knowing the limitations of your REACTION attacks.
-
pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
Thanks for this last post, Jeremy. The effect of air zones is the least analyzed, discussed, and understood feature of this game, despite being one of the most important factors to be taken into consideration by the player. It took me years to figure out even the rudiments of how play is affected by AZOCs.
I suggest that the tutorial you are planning to include with v. 3.2 contain some detailed treatment of this concept. The discussion in the current rule book is neither clear nor helpful.
I suggest that the tutorial you are planning to include with v. 3.2 contain some detailed treatment of this concept. The discussion in the current rule book is neither clear nor helpful.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.