Empires in the Balance (TS GCM v2)

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treespider
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by treespider »

About to come full circle on the economic model...

EDIT:
I returned to:
LI - 20 Resources In , 2 Supply Out
HI - 15 Resources In, 2 Fuel In, 2 HI Out

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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JWE
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: treespider
About to come full circle on the economic model...

EDIT:
I returned to:
LI - 20 Resources In , 2 Supply Out
HI - 15 Resources In, 2 Fuel In, 2 HI Out
I'm ba-ack!
Had some of the Babes guys run some tests, and had 8 hours to think about stuff in the car. Have some thoughts, and possibly conclusions, that might make Nik and Vettim very happy. Ran some implications through the old brain and it keeps looking better and better.

Am very tired right now, so me (and Abby) and Mr Mount Gay are gonna kick back from our roadtrip. If you can wait till tomorrow, have some fun stuff to natter about.

Ciao. J
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: treespider
About to come full circle on the economic model...

EDIT:
I returned to:
LI - 20 Resources In , 2 Supply Out
HI - 15 Resources In, 2 Fuel In, 2 HI Out
I'm ba-ack!
Had some of the Babes guys run some tests, and had 8 hours to think about stuff in the car. Have some thoughts, and possibly conclusions, that might make Nik and Vettim very happy. Ran some implications through the old brain and it keeps looking better and better.

Am very tired right now, so me (and Abby) and Mr Mount Gay are gonna kick back from our roadtrip. If you can wait till tomorrow, have some fun stuff to natter about.

Ciao. J

Can't wait because at this point I think we're buggered due to port efficiency...or at least the part about resource centers adding to port efficiency.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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Nomad
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by Nomad »

ORIGINAL: treespider

Can't wait because at this point I think we're buggered due to port efficiency...or at least the part about resource centers adding to port efficiency.

Is there any reason to put the resource centers at a base with a port? Couldn't you put them one hex inland at a small base or something?
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: treespider

Can't wait because at this point I think we're buggered due to port efficiency...or at least the part about resource centers adding to port efficiency.

Is there any reason to put the resource centers at a base with a port? Couldn't you put them one hex inland at a small base or something?


Actually you may be able to get by with a daily resource allotment in Japan...and eliminate the resource centers altogether. Although that limits targets for strategic bombing.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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oldman45
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by oldman45 »

I have never played Japan, but are we really sure that the load times are based on the resourses at the base?
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's Website

Post by treespider »

Not sure where to post my economic changes and their effects. Guess I'll start here...
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

From the Economic Tweak Thread ... I have settled upon a new economy...

EDIT: the posted Scenario has yet to receive these changes.


1. The general changes include:

A. Changing Resource Center Output from 20 RP to 25 RP per day.
B. Change Light Industry (LI) Input from 15 RP to 25 RP per day.
C. Change LI Output to 2 Supply per day
D. Change Heavy Industry (HI) Input from 20 RP & 2 Fuel to 19 RP & 2 Fuel
E. Change HI Output from 2 supply & 2 HI points to 2 HI points
F. Change Refinery Output from 9 Fuel & 1 Supply to 10 Fuel.

2. An across the board 33% cut in the Bulk Cargo capacity of the following ship class types:

29 - AMC
47 - AKA
55 - AP
56 - AK
57 - AKV
59 - AKL
80 - xAP
81 - xAPc
82 - xAK
83 - xAKL

3. US Changes

A.The addition of 38 LI centers (or modify existing centers) in the United States broken down as follows:
# - Rep (Dam)
11 - 90(90) point centers
10 - 90(275) point centers
5 - 90(455) point centers
5 - 90(635) point centers
7 - 90(1910)point centers (these will never finish repairing)

B . Add 38 Undamaged Resource Centers (or modify existing centers)
11 - 180 point centers
10 - 365 point centers
5 - 545 point centers
5 - 725 point centers
7 - 2000 point centers

C. Add 100 Oil Centers to create Oil Surplus.


4. Addition of a number of Resource Centers to existing facilities in China/Manchuria (Will provide details later)

5. Addition of 3000 daily Fuel to Harbin/Mukden representing Bunker Coal. Requiring a House Rule - the Japanese may not use TK's/AO's/YO's to transport Fuel from Mainland Asia.

6. Addition of 412 damaged Resource Centers to two bases and 230,000 RP to Australia.

7. Possible additional changes I have yet to think of...

Now what are the consequences of these changes.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

Consequences - AUSTRALIA

With the best will in the world, Australia simply did not have resources for the tremendous effort required. Australian manpower, scant to begin with, had already been drained for her military forces and war industries. Her continental defenses were at rock bottom, the best of her troops and the bulk of her military equipment having been sent overseas. Her economy was already stretched tight by the demands of two years of war and was scarcely sufficient to meet her own requirements. While a large part of the basic U.S. Army ration, items of clothing, and the like could be obtained locally, only a brief survey was needed to convince Americans in Australia that the great bulk of military supplies—including construction equipment and construction labor would have to come from the United States.

-Global Logistics & Strategy 1940-43, p. 168
Leighton & Coakley

Australia and New Zealand were primarily agricultural, producing an exportable surplus of foodstuffs and raw materials, which in peacetime they normally exchanged with England for manufactured goods. Though their industry was increasing, and the pace of its development was vastly speeded by the war, it was far from sufficient in 1942 to maintain an essential civilian economy and provide equipment for the armed forces Australia and New Zealand could put into the field. The large American forces sent to the area promised an additional drain on the native economy. These American forces would be operating at the end of one of the longest supply lines in the history of warfare. If they could draw the bulk of their subsistence supplies from local sources, the saving in shipping would be immense. A fairly simple and direct exchange therefore suggested itself whereby Australia and New Zealand would furnish American forces with housing, subsistence, clothing, and miscellaneous supplies and services in return for which the United States would supply the marginal needs of both their military forces and civilian economy.

-Global Logistics & Strategy 1940-43, p. 497
Leighton & Coakley


In Stock-AE Australia has 3210 Resource centers producing 64,200 RP.

Australia also has 2770 LI and 1120 HI which require 63950 RP and 2240 fuel.

As such she has a 250 point RP surplus...no more resources need to be transported to Australia.

The Industry/Refineries produces 5010 points of supply.

She also has 55 Refineries which produce 495 Fuel and 55 supply.

So in the end Australia produces 250 RP, 5065 Supply points and has a -1745 Fuel Deficit.


With my changes:

In TGC DBB Australia has 3210 Resource centers producing 80250 RP.

An additional 412 damaged Resource Centers have been added to existing centers.

Australia also has 2770 LI and 1120 HI which require 90530 RP and 2240 fuel.

As such At start she has a -10,280 point RP deficit. However as the damaged Resource Centers repair Australia will be able to meet her and the US's needs. After approximately 200 days the 412 Resource centers will produce a further 10,300 RP eliminating the Australian RP deficit.

Early in the game RP will need to be transported to Australia for her economy to keep functioning at peak efficiency. I tend to think of these Resource Points as asphalt, asphalt producing plants, crushing plants, compressors, jack hammers, screening plants for gravel, explosives, landing mat; for transportation, rail and rolling stock, trucks, gasoline storage tanks, and operating personnel, etc. After the first 200 days she will be fully self sufficent.

The Industry will produces 5540 points of supply. She also has 55 Refineries which produce 550 Fuel.

So in the end Australia At Start will produce a -10280 RP deficit, 3540 Supply points (5540 - 2000 for Resource Center Repair) and has a -1690 point Fuel Deficit....assuming the US ships RP and Oil to Australia. Eventually the RP deficit will disappear and the damaged Resource center will not need supply for repair.

Due to other changes in the US economy which cause Supply to be much scarcer it may be beneficial for the US to ship RP in addition to supply to Australia in the beginning until Australia's economy can fully meet its RP requirements.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

Consequences - India


In Stock-AE India has 3200 Resource centers producing 64,000 RP.

India also has 2040 LI and 1430 HI which require 59,200 RP and 2860 fuel.

As such she has a 4800 point RP surplus...no more resources need to be transported to Australia.

The Industry produces 4900 points of supply.

She also has 90 Refineries which produce 810 Fuel and 90 supply.

So in the end India produces 4800 RP, 4990 Supply points and has a -2050 Fuel Deficit.


With TGC DBB India has 3200 Resource centers producing 80,000 RP.

India also has 2040 LI and 1430 HI which require 78,170 RP and 2860 fuel.

As such she has a 1830 point RP surplus...no more resources need to be transported to India....she can export to Australia if needed

The Industry produces 4080 points of supply....a 910 point drop per day.

She also has 90 Refineries which produce 900 Fuel.

So in the end India produces 1830 RP, 4080 Supply points and has a -1960 Fuel Deficit.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

Consequences - US


Going in my goals for US supply production were:

mid 42 = 41,300
mid 43 = 71,200
mid 44+ = 79,000

In Stock AE the US receives 65,000 daily supply + 6200 from on map LI = 71,200 which I chose as the 1943 base line.

I reduce daily supply to 50,000. This combined with the existing 6200 produced from on map LI supply production = 56,200

I then give the US a series of LI Centers - 38 total, partially damaged

11 - 90(90) point centers
10 - 90(275) point centers
5 - 90(455) point centers
5 - 90(635) point centers
7 - 90(1910)point centers (these will never finish repairing)

So in Dec/41 with 38 LI centers repairng we burn 38,000 supply per turn from our 56,200 leaving a surplus of 18,200/day which slowly grows as LI comes online.

90 turns into the game, roughly March 1942, my 11 - 180 point centers have completed repairing and the other 27 centers have 180 points repaired as well.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 9720 (27LIx180x2) - 27,000 (27 LI still repairing) = 42880 supply/day ....my goal was 41,300 close enough for govt. work

Continuing on another 185 days to Sep 42 another 10 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 12410 (17LIx365x2) - 17,000 (17 LI still repairing) = 62870 supply

Continuing on another 180 days to March 43 another 5 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 5450 (5LIx545x2) + 8760 (12LIx365x2) - 12,000 (12 LI still repairing) = 73990 supply my goal was 71200 ... pretty close.

Continuing on another 180 days to Sept 43 another 5 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 5450 (5LIx545x2) + 7250 (5LIx725x2) + 10150 (7LI x725x2) - 7000 (7 LI still repairing) = 83310 supply points per day....

From here the US supply will continue to grow by 14 points per day till the end of the game as the 7 remaining unrepaired LI centers repair every day.

Needless to say I add an equivalent number of repaired resource centers to feed the LI...which gives the US a substantial Resource surplus early in the game which it can transport to OZ. However Supply is much tighter than Stock AE - early and more plentiful later.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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witpqs
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by witpqs »

Maybe I missed it - add a bit of Oil production to US for transport to OZ.
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Maybe I missed it - add a bit of Oil production to US for transport to OZ.

Yep...forgot to put that in there. Will add 100 pt Oil center to US.

Edit: Thesis Post (#108) updated
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Buck Beach
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by Buck Beach »

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: witpqs

Maybe I missed it - add a bit of Oil production to US for transport to OZ.

Yep...forgot to put that in there. Will add 100 pt Oil center to US.

Edit: Thesis Post (#108) updated

I have read the histories of the Esso tankers during the war and they loaded up at Aruba before heading off into the Pacific. Maybe you would want your oil for Oz to show up at Balboa or Cristobal and that way separate it from the West Coast. Just a thought.

Buck

Thought I would add in the source of the Esso tankers for those interested.

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view ... =16;num=12

This is one of the index pages. The site is free from what I can remember.
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

Thanks...excellent idea.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

New Scenario File Uploaded reflecting the above changes...including JWE's comprehensive revision of the cls file.

The Files can be found HERE

Guess the AI awaits revisions...unless someone wants to test drive it with me.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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witpqs
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: treespider

New Scenario File Uploaded reflecting the above changes...including JWE's comprehensive revision of the cls file.

The Files can be found HERE

Guess the AI awaits revisions...unless someone wants to test drive it with me.

Could you just review what was your starting baseline - was it DaBabes Scenario 28 (DaBigBabes)? I'm wanting to stick to Babes (or siblings).
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: treespider

New Scenario File Uploaded reflecting the above changes...including JWE's comprehensive revision of the cls file.

The Files can be found HERE

Guess the AI awaits revisions...unless someone wants to test drive it with me.

Could you just review what was your starting baseline - was it DaBabes Scenario 28 (DaBigBabes)? I'm wanting to stick to Babes (or siblings).

Starting Baseline for this scenario is Da Big Babes scenario 28.

I ported over my earlier scenario work into the DBB location file when i returned from my "sabbatical".

Everything else is pure DBB with the exception of the changed Production Inputs/Outputs which I believe are on the device tab.


Note : There is no real AI for this beasty ...yet....


EDIT: GRRRRR overlooked one device I added -
1316 - Political Section
Type - 23 - Squad
Side - Allied
Available - 4112
Build Rate - 25
Pool - 100
Anit Armor - 1
Anti Soft - 9
Load Cost 11

My apologies. Scenario files updated.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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witpqs
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by witpqs »

How serious a test drive do you mean - like long term game serious, or kick around the first couple of months to see if there are any nuclear meltdowns?
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treespider
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RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

How serious a test drive do you mean - like long term game serious, or kick around the first couple of months to see if there are any nuclear meltdowns?

Well if it melts down...then it gets adjusted...if it doesn't meltdown in a couple months... drive until the wheels come off.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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