V103 Fortified Regions attached construction su's don't aid fortifying

[cookie monster]

I've began a 1941 GC as the Soviets and I was unhappy with the rate at which fortifed regions made forts.

So I made a test using a game in 44.

I placed 3 Rifle Divisions in a hex each. They have a constuction value of 32 initially.

I then made 2 fortified regions and attached 3 construction battalions at 10 construction value each to one FR.

I then attached 3 RR Brigades to the other at 40 construction value each.

These freshly made FR's had a construction value of 27.

Therefore the FR with a construction value of 27 plus the 3 RR Brigades at 40 construction value ,should have 147 construction value in total.

This FR with the RR Brigades should have made forts quicker than any of the 3 rifle divisions or the other FR with the CB's.

What I found was that after 43 turns the FR with the 3 RR Brigades only made forts 4(70%). With the next rifle division having made forts 4 (61%) in the same time.

After my test I find that attaching construction units to a fortified region makes no difference.

Fortified zones/regions were always considered useless now this confirms it.

Here's a picture showing equal fort construction. saves to follow.

[cookie monster]

heres the forts at level 2 65%

[cookie monster]

here's the forts at level 4 70%.

Do any attached units help units to fortify?

I hope sappers attached to corps helps.

More saves/pictures available. Im sure you have an idea of what I am talking about.

[alfonso]

Curiously, it seems as if the construction SU should be attached to the HQ commanding the Combat Unit, rather than to the Combat Unit itself, to provide construction help.

[Helpless]

Do any attached units help units to fortify?

Not at the moment. This is known issue and should be fixed.

[Helpless]

Curiously, it seems as if the construction SU should be attached to the HQ commanding the Combat Unit, rather than to the Combat Unit itself, to provide construction help.

That's right. HQ's can provide construction help. Combat unit's don't.

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: alfonso

Curiously, it seems as if the construction SU should be attached to the HQ commanding the Combat Unit, rather than to the Combat Unit itself, to provide construction help.

There's not much point in being able to attach more than 3 construction su's to a FR if they do nothing whatsoever.

You can only attach 3 sapper though.

While were here my previous report of surrendered FR's destroyed support units not appearing in the destroyed units losses screen is still valid.

FR's are good for getting forts started in cities with civilian assistance. They would be ten times better though if attached CB's/RR brigades actually made a difference though.

In this test I made sure the commanding HQ had no construction/engineers attached.

I wanted to check the divisions fortifying rate against the fortified regions. This test proves attached construction units make no difference.

This test was in 44-45 with much stronger fortified regions.

The early soviet FR's in 1941 have only 7 construction value. They are pretty much useless away from cities. My Crimean fortifications have suffered because of this 'feature'.

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Curiously, it seems as if the construction SU should be attached to the HQ commanding the Combat Unit, rather than to the Combat Unit itself, to provide construction help.

That's right. HQ's can provide construction help. Combat unit's don't.

Do you mean to say that attaching construction units to a fortified region is pointless.

They will not help the FR to fortify?

EDIT

Didnt see your double post Pavel. Ok so its a known issue.

Building forts is critical for the Soviets in 41. However we all must prioritise.

[alfonso]

Cookie, what I do now is

a) to load the HQ with construction brigades
b) where I want a fort, I place a somewhat irrelevant unit (a naval brigade, a NKVD regiment) to receive the HQ help

Sometimes I am tempted of using a Fortified Region as that "irrelevant" unit, but everytime the 16 AP cost scares me away...

[cookie monster]

I have about 3 RR Brigades per army, most brigades which are as 'cadres' have no refit and toe turned down to 50%

The only ones at 80% are fortifying lake ladoga's ports

NKVD's are manning the finnish no attack line. They arent any spare I used a few as speed bumps against the enemy and they shatttered

I am running outta manpower every turn I refit all rifle divisions and only a few of the many cavalry divisions

The AI is tough on HARD

[randallw]

Don't forget there is some fort limitation for NKVD regiments.

[alfonso]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Don't forget there is some fort limitation for NKVD regiments.

Exactly.

I had forgotten that.

Well, I do not know if I ever knew that rule. Page 202: "security type units cannot build a fort level greater than one" brrrrrr[&:]

[carnifex]

Replace the NKVD units with infantry brigades - they will dig better forts and you can disband the NKVD units to conserve manpower.