Amphib loading,unloading

[hbrsvl]

Hi-It's 6/43 and I'm ready to load for Bonin Is. ops. There are some APA and AKA but not nearly enough.

If I create barges at Guam and Saipan, will they help speed up loading of Amphib/landing craft TFs? Also, should I try to drag them along to help unloading? I understand I would incur some losses going from Saipan to Iwo, but is it worth it?

Thanks, Hugh Browne

[beppi]

You can load your stuff on barges but i would no advise to do it as the daily disruption on barge tfs raises quite high.
If you lack the APA use APs instead, if you lack the AKA use the LST where some should be available. If the transport capacity is still not enough prepare some the marine base detachments (with the 30 naval support or so) for the base and the should be a amphib bde with 200 naval support available. You can even land some naval base forces (with 100 prep) and if you can get a few hundred naval support on the beach you can even use xAPs and xAKs for the invasion.

[crsutton]

Are you playing vs a human or via email? Using XAP an XAK vs a human can be dangerous as they take a very long time to unload.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: hbrsvl

Hi-It's 6/43 and I'm ready to load for Bonin Is. ops. There are some APA and AKA but not nearly enough.

If I create barges at Guam and Saipan, will they help speed up loading of Amphib/landing craft TFs? Also, should I try to drag them along to help unloading? I understand I would incur some losses going from Saipan to Iwo, but is it worth it?

Thanks, Hugh Browne

To answer the specific question: NO. Barges (LB, LCVP, etc) do not help in the unload. We understand that they could in real life but AE does not have provisions for transferring troops/cargo from one ship to another while at Sea. A big Pandora's Box of worms to add it.

The amphibious types (APA, etc) have their own landing craft that give them the increased unloading capability. These landing craft are not directly represented, just part of being an APA. Also note that once an APA is unloaded, it's "landing craft" can assist in the unload of other ships in the TF.

If you want to help unload, bring along some Naval Support. If you are playing Babes (or any other mod that uses them), you could also bring along port support troops and/or AVT. All of these can help unload.

[hbrsvl]

To-beppi, crsutton and Don-Thanks to all. It all helps. HB

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Also note that once an APA is unloaded, it's "landing craft" can assist in the unload of other ships in the TF.

That's a new one for me. Good info.

[hunchback77]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Are you playing vs a human or via email? Using XAP an XAK vs a human can be dangerous as they take a very long time to unload.

If you are going to use xAP and xAK, use 3 times the ship capacity needed and the smaller capacity ones. That should allow most of the troops to get ashore within 1 or 2 days at most.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


[
Thanks, Hugh Browne

The amphibious types (APA, etc) have their own landing craft that give them the increased unloading capability. These landing craft are not directly represented, just part of being an APA. Also note that once an APA is unloaded, it's "landing craft" can assist in the unload of other ships in the TF.


[/quote]


Don,

This one I did not know. So if you have say some xAPs in your invasion TF then once the APAs have unloaded the xAPs will unload faster? Could you elaborate a bit? How much help do they give?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


[
Thanks, Hugh Browne

The amphibious types (APA, etc) have their own landing craft that give them the increased unloading capability. These landing craft are not directly represented, just part of being an APA. Also note that once an APA is unloaded, it's "landing craft" can assist in the unload of other ships in the TF.

Don,

This one I did not know. So if you have say some xAPs in your invasion TF then once the APAs have unloaded the xAPs will unload faster? Could you elaborate a bit? How much help do they give?
[/quote]

OK, took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck. I'm no longer a member of the development team and I do not feel that I can give exact formula, but the unload bonus can be substantial.

[bush]

This really opens up a new set of strategies - hit the beaches then create barge TF's to help with the unload - take the base and put the toys away (disband) until the next invasion. I am about to hit a dot hex in New Guinea so I will be putting this to use immediately.

Thanks for the info Don!

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

This really opens up a new set of strategies - hit the beaches then create barge TF's to help with the unload - take the base and put the toys away (disband) until the next invasion. I am about to hit a dot hex in New Guinea so I will be putting this to use immediately.

Thanks for the info Don!

Great idea but I do not think it will work. I don't think one can create barges from a TF that is not docked.

[bush]

This game is one big roller coaster. Ups and downs abound. Well, that little trick might not work but at least when I get a level 1 port I can speed up my unloading by using barges. Thank you (I say disappointedly) for the info.

[hbrsvl]

bushpsu-My idea is to use existing LCVP,barges, etc., form them into a TF and have them trail main TF.

Or, create barges at a base and do same.

To Don Bowen, thanks for taking your time to clairify this.

Thanks to all, Hugh Browne

[hbrsvl]

Don-"Unloading is the world-wide difficulty of amphibious operations." Quote from RAD Theodore S. Wilkinson, ComPhibSoPac, in S.E Morison"s "History of U.S. Naval Operations in WW II." vol.VI, "Breaking the Bismark's Barrier", page after dedication page(no page #).

Don, you didn't "lie", you were just misinformed.

Hugh Browne

[Schanilec]

Hmmm. Just finishing up reading that volume. After New Georgia the US really starting getting the hang of Amphib' operations. Especially going up the coast of New Guinea and Bougainville.  But for Tarawa. The next volume.

[treespider]

Just to clarify...

Don said:

OK, took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck.

I may be mistaken but I presume this means the empty vessels (LB, LCVP, LCM etc) need to be in the TF to adjust the "calculated ability of the TF to unload."

[Nomad]

I have nothing to say any more.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Just to clarify...

Don said:

OK, took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck.

I may be mistaken but I presume this means the empty vessels (LB, LCVP, LCM etc) need to be in the TF to adjust the "calculated ability of the TF to unload."

Correct, must be in the same TF.

[cantona2]

you play this game for years and BAM something news comes out the woodwork to surprise us!

Does the same aid to the unload rate occur if these LCM's etc are transferred into an already existing AND unloading TF?

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Just to clarify...

Don said:

OK, took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck.

I may be mistaken but I presume this means the empty vessels (LB, LCVP, LCM etc) need to be in the TF to adjust the "calculated ability of the TF to unload."

LSD's help too right?

Supposed to create a level 1 port effect?