BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac

[PresterJohn001]

I suspect that the allied ground forces will be a tougher battle than their naval ones. Supply will most likely be their weakness. They are tough as nails.

My feeling is Andys mistake was concentrating too much on having a constant naval presence at Waingapoe. Once troops landed, pull back, keep it supplied as best you can but concentrate on a second landing asap.

Excellent victory and kudos to Andy too for fighting and fighting... many opponents would have cashed their chips. I almost would like to see him get his revenge. Almost.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PzB

I agree with you here Crsutton; but I must also admit that I don't know how many ac were historically lost by % when Jap and Allied ac attacked each others fleets in 41-45.

+

I concur with your assesments. I just do not send old American BBs into restricted waters. Japanese CAs and DDs just eat them up. Allied modern CLs and Fletcher DDs seem to get the best bang for the buck. I also expect Alled DDs to have better sucess with torpedoes after 1944-so perhaps Andy should have waited a few months befor trying something so ambitious.

By 1944, Allied AA was accounting for the bulk of Japanese aircraft shot down. Something like %60 I think. Even with better fighters, radar and vectoring, allied AA was the real killer orather than CAP. By late 43, Allied flak gunners were really getting their act down.

Someone here a few months back posted a great AA report written by the Allied commander after the battle of (Santa Cruz?) It was a facinating read as he was bemoaning the poor results of Allied AA at that stage of the war. The Allies had radar fire control but he said that lack of experience and training made it all but useless with most guns not shooting until visual recognition was made. The other point he made which really makes sense to me is that the ship with the greatest chance to shoot down attacking aircraft is the ship being attacked. This makes sense as every other ship in the TF is firing defelction while the ship under attack is shooting directly along the attack paths of the oncoming bombers.

[PzB74]

No doubt, no fancy way to fin land battles in AE...only a prolonged slug combined with 1000 enemy bomber strikes.
If Andy had captured another 2 bases and landed sufficient air support, AA guns and engineers he would have gained a solid foothold in the SRA.
With only 1 base I guess he had to protect his airfields on Waingapoe to support his hard pressed CAGs; and so it continued.

That's the bugger, no matter how hard you fight as Japan you always end up like Emperor Nero [8|]

Yep, Old battleships are great for bombardments and invasion support...but not as frontline assets against the prime of IJN.
No doubt AA is difficult to program; need to tweak parameters for both sides as the war progressed and radar and prox fuses gets into play.
Not sure any further major tweaks will be done in AE so now both sides have to make do with what they got and adapt.

[Cribtop]

Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.

[Xxzard]

Historically speaking, (if that's worth anything) it seems odd to me that no PM strike was launched considering how many times in the war carrier aircraft were launched so late in the day that they needed to be recovered near dusk or even at night.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: PzB
KB holds ca 800 ac including slow CVEs. Can certainly split it, but to what purpose?
The Yorktown was reported sunk today, not that many US carriers still around.

Well, you could keep one part near Waingapoe, in case Allies shows up again, and send other half for hunting. There is possibility, that damaged ships will be sent to India/USA by map edge. But your edge seems to be only temporal, in 1-2 months all CVs will be repaired.

It is pretty clear, that the sole fact of bombardment, not firepower is important.
ISE got better results, than fleet, so you should split (but keep enough ships to counter raiders).
After all those sunk ships, what is the overall score, anyway?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

...Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. ...

Interesting thought ... makes sense.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

...Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. ...

Interesting thought ... makes sense.

yeah, would make sense but as I´ve seen such "long range" strikes both in the am and pm phase dozens of times I seriously doubt that above´s theory has something to do with the game.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.

I agree with this and put all of my TBDs on 20% search. I think layers of detection and multiple detection is more important that the lost strike assets.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.

I agree with this and put all of my TBDs on 20% search. I think layers of detection and multiple detection is more important that the lost strike assets.

would also reflect US SBD use in WW2 more accurately too, added in is the possibility that a scout SBD will drop an egg into a flightdeck as a bonus. Happened twice iirc at santa cruz before the japs even launched. Finding intel on scouts hitting anything is not the easiest thing in the game though [;)]

And one more Grats to PzB , when you start an AAR on WitE i'll be glued to that one too even though i dont own the game (yet).

[PzB74]

Yes, I think numerous detections have a positive influence on strike coordination.
Setting up better coordinated strikes together with more accurate positioning of enemy fleets = more hits.

AM - PM strikes I don't even have a theory for.
If weather grounded KB strikes I'd wish there was a message saying so; I've still seen strikes launched in t-storms against targets in t-storms.

I'm wearing out my battleships, so need to complete the Waingapoe business before they all have to go into the yards.
Splitting up TFs is possible when no enemy resistance is expected.
- Will take a month to get all damaged CVs and CVEs to yard alone; I expect 1-3 months to complete repairs.

Hm, not keeping an eye on it but I think score is (ca) Allies 22000 vs Japan 52000.

Thx Rob, I got WitE on hold until this game is completed [:)]

Andy got virus on his puter and needs to reinstall...so no turn today.

[2ndACR]

Tell Andy to quit surfing naughty web sites. LOL[:-]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Tell Andy to quit surfing naughty web sites. LOL[:-]

+1

[:D][:D][:D]

[mikhail]

Tell Andy to quit surfing naughty web sites. LOL[:-]
[/quote]



Maybe after defeat it's only pleasure for him [;)]

[PaxMondo]

You do know that in a few of months, Andy will read this.  I'm so happy I did not write that!  [:D]

[PzB74]

Yep, anger a Scot on your own risk [;)]

Ordered a new book today: Fortress-Rabaul

[rmlpanzer08]

Hi PzB,

I just finished the book last week. A good book, a quick read. I learned alot that I didn't know about the Rabaul battles.

Congrats on your well earned victory.

[PzB74]

Thx RML! Looking forward to the read [:)]

We're back in business - with a bang!

We hit Waingapoe hard again and our LBA is back in action with a vengeance and hits 8 cargo ships and a destroyer south of Timor.
Didn't we tell Andy that he can't do as he wish around here? [:-][;)]

Also good news from the R&D Department; the Frank is ready for production in a few days!
I've also replenished 98% of KBs veteran and elite pilots; 98% of ac also in place and being readied.

When the Allies come back the same old way we'll defeat them in the same old way! [&o]

And this is for the victims in the horrible earthquake in Japan [&o][&o][&o]


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 27, 43

Bombardments - Surface Combat

Night Naval bombardment of Waingapoe at 63,113 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
24 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Hiei
CA Ashigara
CA Atago
DD Tachekaze
DD Uzuki
DD Shiranui
DD Suzunami
DD Kazegumo
DD Akizuki

Allied ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 9
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Nagato
BB Nagato firing at Waingapoe
F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Hiei
BB Hiei firing at 11th (East African) Division
CA Ashigara firing at 11th (East African) Division
CA Atago firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Tachekaze firing at 7th Infantry Division
DD Uzuki firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Shiranui firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Suzunami firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Kazegumo firing at 7th Infantry Division
DD Akizuki firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at DD Akizuki
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Endeh at 64,113, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Nagato
CA Atago
CA Ashigara
DD Akizuki
DD Kazegumo
DD Suzunami
DD Shiranui
DD Uzuki
DD Tachekaze

Allied Ships
PT-364, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-365
PT-366, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-367, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-372, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-373, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Our Betties have elite pilots..still! I've tried to hold them back from high risk missions.

Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 23
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 22
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 15 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Waingapoe at 63,113
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 4
B-25G Mitchell x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed
B-25G Mitchell: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
E Aotaka
PB Yodozo Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25G Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Derby at 67,123
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
LSI(L) Denbighshire
xAK Vitus Bering, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Taylor, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Derby at 67,123
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 19 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK Empire Condor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LCI-221
xAK Alice Moller, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Clan Cameron
APA Pierce, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Bald Eagle, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Mahsud, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK George Chaffey, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
xAK William Vanderbilt, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CL Mobile

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northern Oz - Again

[ny59giants]

Since I read your AAR frequently, but comment sporadically, I have learned that I will need to pull out some of my highly trained Army bomber pilots that have high Ground experience to replace losses. Right now (Aug 42), I have just added rookies when older pilots are killed.

I just thought about training up some of the small (2 to 4 plane) FP restricted in Japan in Recon and Naval Search. I wonder how much a difference your Bombardment TF would be if those spotting had high recon experience. Do you have any idea how good those FP pilots are for your BBs??

[Cribtop]

Hmmmm....... Interesting thought.