OT: Massive 8.9 quake in northern Japan

[khyberbill]

I looked it up. Co60 comes from the bombardment of the Co59 that is present in steel.

And Co60 is just the nastiest one there, Mn54, Fe59 and Ni63(hard to detect because of its low energy but with a 100 yr half life). Basically, the steel rusts, the rust (known as corrosion products) gets into core and is irradiated and some becomes radioactive. So, you end up with two basic sources of radioactivity; corrosion products and fission products (Cs137/134, I131) and if any of the fuel melted then there will be some U235/238 and Pu239 as well-sort of a condiment-but probably not enough in any menaingful quantity off site.

[khyberbill]

The reactor containment vessels have not been breached.

I had read where the primary and secondary containment vessels at reactor 4 were breached and I hope it is not true. I would bet a large confectionery though that as the situation "stabilzes" at Fukushima that the evacuation zone will expand and not contract. One of the problems now is that the coastal rail line goes very near Fukushima thus hampering getting help to the north.

[Cap Mandrake]

Oh, so THAT'S where the Cobalt comes from in radiation therapy devices. It's nuclear waste. [:D]

[khyberbill]

Oh, so THAT'S where the Cobalt comes from in radiation therapy devices. It's nuclear waste.

Yes, largely, IIRC, from PWR's but some I think from BWRs. So many shipments, so long ago, it all sort of blends together. I spent a winter in Oswego, NY once and shipped some hellaciously radioactive reactor core hardware from the reactors near there and saw enough snow to last me a lifetime. Most of that stuff ended up in Kentucky and South Carolina.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Oh, so THAT'S where the Cobalt comes from in radiation therapy devices. It's nuclear waste. [:D]

Doc mandrake, peddling nuclear waste! [X(]

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

It's nice to get good information without all the doom and gloom hyperbole that the press is spouting. That's what I love about this forum. People here have a wide range of expertise on nearly every subject that matters... and some that don't!

Anyways, it sounds as though the situation is stabilizing, certainly not getting any worse at the moment and that in itself is a good sign. Hopefully, they will continue making progress.

Chez

I hear ya. I can't trust anything the press says. UGH.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

...As a gag, at our annual stockholder meeting this Tuesday I gave everyone iodized salt before my candidate's speech....which was all of two sentences. I can't lose....literally (nobody ran against me).

Are you sure you can't lose.[:)]

Aren't you already certified as dead. I'm certain your alter ego clearly has the letter of condolocense from WWII(c) establishing the circumstances of your unfortunate demise. Wouldn't the stockholder articles of association have some by-law preventing a dead person from being qualified to stand for election. Plus isn't electoral bribery some sort of disqualifier.[;)]

Alfred

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

It's nice to get good information without all the doom and gloom hyperbole that the press is spouting. That's what I love about this forum. People here have a wide range of expertise on nearly every subject that matters... and some that don't!

Anyways, it sounds as though the situation is stabilizing, certainly not getting any worse at the moment and that in itself is a good sign. Hopefully, they will continue making progress.

Chez

I hear ya. I can't trust anything the press says. UGH.

Every time I read a newspaper article on a subject where I'm an expert, I end up saying to myself "wow, that's not even remotely right." Every single time. That leads me to wonder how much I should trust what I read when I'm not an expert.

[KenchiSulla]

I am sorry to say I believe you are right the Gnome.....

I hope Japan and the Japanese will find a way to cope with the losses sustained...

[khyberbill]

I hope Japan and the Japanese will find a way to cope with the losses sustained...

And I fear it will be awhile before a complete picture is available. Whole villages and towns swept away. I have read numerous accounts that tell of the early warning system working and people beginning to flee, many by foot. The elderly just couldn't move fast enough and many were swept away before reaching higher ground. So sad.

[Canoerebel]

Mark Twain said it best: "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed."

khyberbill: What is the meaning/reference of your signature line? I have no idea and it's driving me crazy....

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

khyberbill: What is the meaning/reference of your signature line? I have no idea and it's driving me crazy....

You gotta watch more SNL, baby!!!

[khyberbill]

khyberbill: What is the meaning/reference of your signature line? I have no idea and it's driving me crazy....

A SNL skit. One of my favorites since Belushi left. http://www.snotr.com/video/261

[The Gnome]

I gotta fever... and the only prescription is more cowbell!

Can you ever hear that song and keep a straight face? [:D]

[herwin]

I've been reading Polmar and Moore, Cold War Submarines. The Soviet Navy had a lot of nasty reactor accidents! There was even a melt-down in 1979.

[khyberbill]

I've been reading Polmar and Moore, Cold War Submarines. The Soviet Navy had a lot of nasty reactor accidents! There was even a melt-down in 1979.

The war up north was cold only in temperature. Lots of action between NATO and Soviets. I have read that the life expectancy of many of the sailors on early Soviet nuclear subs was very short due to high radiation exposure.

[ChezDaJez]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I've been reading Polmar and Moore, Cold War Submarines. The Soviet Navy had a lot of nasty reactor accidents! There was even a melt-down in 1979.

The war up north was cold only in temperature. Lots of action between NATO and Soviets. I have read that the life expectancy of many of the sailors on early Soviet nuclear subs was very short due to high radiation exposure.

We used to joke that early generation Soviet boats didn't need interior lighting because everything glowed.

Chez

[khyberbill]

We used to joke that early generation Soviet boats didn't need interior lighting because everything glowed.

Chez

The same could be said about the Nautilus. I had classmate that was a radio-chemist on that sub and he could not even go on the boat the last month of every quarter because he had already received his allowable rad dose. Easy duty!

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Speaking of San Onofre, I heard yesterday the seawall there for tsunamis is 30 ft whereas the one at Fukushima is only 12ft. The greatest risk at Old Man's is getting the crap beat out of you for not showing proper deference to a local.

Oh, c'mon, we weren't that bad. Always found the San Onofre poeple to be gracious and helpful (admit I'm a longboarder and folks down there do longboards).

Never noticed a seawall that high. Nice to know it's there, but never saw it. Been around the offshore bouy a gazillion times, till Homeland Security shut it down. Actually, way back when, that little bobber was maybe 0.75 - 1.1 miles off the beach. Never knew they had a tall wall. Sea floor is way deep till maybe a mile, then it goes to a 100 --> 60 foot ledge. So nothing but swell, till the last little bit. Cool; bet a surfer (or a sailor) had some input on that design.

Been 40 years since I had to do any chemistry. Wonder what the solubility of cobalt, or other nasty unstable elements, is in water.

[khyberbill]

Been 40 years since I had to do any chemistry. Wonder what the solubility of cobalt, or other nasty unstable elements, is in water

I mainly used cation resin to remove Co60. Preceded by an activated charcoal filter (coconut husk seemed to work best and I always wanted to go to the South Pacific and do a study of coconut husks) and then polished by anion resin. I could usually get reductions of up to 10,000. I know that they now use additives and RO to process waste water as well-I have been out of that business for close to 20 years.