Winter 1942 vs winter 1941

[robjoh]

All,

Approaching mud season '42 on my GC as Axis (vs the AI - Normal). I survived blizzard in 1941 and subsequently took Moscow in august 1942 (Leningrad was conquered in '41). Stalinggrad still out of reach. My losses are in the range of 2,5 million in total while the SU has lost approx 8,5 million men.

Now my question: what can I expect from the upcoming winter 42-43? I know from the manual the "first winter rules" etc but how will it feel in "reality"? Can I hold the line or will it be retreat all the way back to the Reich? Is an offensive in 1943 at all possible? Any hints from players who has experienced the second winter would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[robjoh]

anyone?

[karonagames]

There are no additional penalties applied to the axis in the winter of 1942/43.

The weather effects are the same for both sides and affect movement and supply. Soviet attacking ability is not enhanced, but their increase in manpower and equipment relative to 1941 should see their attacking power increased compared to 1941.

[lazydawg]

ORIGINAL: robjoh

All,

Approaching mud season '42 on my GC as Axis (vs the AI - Normal). I survived blizzard in 1941 and subsequently took Moscow in august 1942 (Leningrad was conquered in '41). Stalinggrad still out of reach. My losses are in the range of 2,5 million in total while the SU has lost approx 8,5 million men.

Now my question: what can I expect from the upcoming winter 42-43? I know from the manual the "first winter rules" etc but how will it feel in "reality"? Can I hold the line or will it be retreat all the way back to the Reich? Is an offensive in 1943 at all possible? Any hints from players who has experienced the second winter would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I have just reached the end of the '42 to '43 blizzard in my game versus the AI (normal). I had no trouble maintaining the offensive; however, the offensives are more limited due to the movement point cost increase during blizzard turns. For comparison, here are the losses in my game:

Start of blizzard ('42) Germany - 1.7 million SU - 8.0 million

End of blizzard ('43) Germany - 1.95 million SU - 10.2 million

The game has turned into a meatgrinder; I'm destroying men & equipment at the same rate it being produced. However, I'm still pushing forward.

[robjoh]

I'm in the middle of blizzard 42-43 and I have to agree with you ncdawg. Blizzard 42/43 is nothing compared to 41/42. I applied the same strategy when it comes to placing all of my panzers in large cities before blizzard but is now beginning too think this was a too defensive move. On the positive side - I will have lots of rested panzers to go on the offensive with come spring 43. Stalingrad will be taken!

[Oleg Mastruko]

Most East Front wargames have "first winter rule", as winter 41 was exceptionally cold, but all winters after that are just regular winters with no penalties.

[robjoh]

True Oleg but WITE has one of the toughest "first winter penalties" I have ever experienced during my 20+ odd years of wargaming...

[color]

ORIGINAL: robjoh

True Oleg but WITE has one of the toughest "first winter penalties" I have ever experienced during my 20+ odd years of wargaming...

The thing is, it grows on you ..

so when v 1.04 is coming out with a planned major drop in blizzard attrition percentage, maybe I will find myself thinking .. "bring back the suffering the Germans deserved" LOL [:D]

(I'm pretty sure we will see some threads in that direction though [:)])

[PeeDeeAitch]

Had I faced the 1.04 penalties (as I see them playing out) in my most recent PBEM I think I would imagine them too lenient.

-edit- and to be clear, what I mean is that while it is possible to severely hurt the Soviets in the Summer/Fall of 1941, I would like them to be able to (at least with the Siberian Reinforcements and fleshed out divisions) hurt the Axis in the first winter.

[Tarhunnas]

Personally, I would like some kind of slight disadvantage to the Axis and/or slight Soviet advantage the second winter. The pattern of German summer offensive / Soviet winter offensive was very clear in 1941-1943, until it all eventually merged in the great Soviet all year round offensive.