Please Sir, send the 105mm AA guns to the front!

[kirkgregerson]

Love the details in WitE with all the equipment. However, it sucks that one can't control it a bit more. Really would love to send these 105mm AA guns to the front to actually be used rather than watch them sit an collect dust in some warehouses? A real shame. Maybe in 1.05 we can spend some APs to adjust TOE to some extent and use all the pools of equipment better.

[&:]

[:(]

________________________________________________ Pool _____________ In Units



As an out-of-the-closet flaming 'axis fanboy' this is breaking my heart. [:'(]
T-34's 'say hello to my little friend'. If you can point an 88mm at tanks, why not a 105mm. Just give it the right optics!
Help me Obi-Wan (Joel)

[color]

It would definitively raise the bling factor of your AA units. Performance wise it was about comparable to the 88 mm FLAK though, with the latter much easier to produce, and mostly it seems it was used in static mounts or on railroad cars.

[Q-Ball]

They were quite immobile however; really only appropriate for static locations, and in practice, they were not much of a battlefield improvement over the 88.

It hasn't come up much because noone is into 1945, but where they should really be is protecting Germany's cities

[molchomor]

Lucky you, I have 200+ tigers out of 300 produced sitting in the pool, with only 6 units interested in using it.

And nothing I can do about it.

[jzardos]

ORIGINAL: molchomor

Lucky you, I have 200+ tigers out of 300 produced sitting in the pool, with only 6 units interested in using it.

And nothing I can do about it.

Well to me that situation seems like a bug. No way 200 tigers would be sitting around?
That is INSANE!!!
They were sending them to the front sometimes even before they were appropriately painted. Did you file this as a bug with the devs? What the heck is going on with this aspect of the game? How could this not be found in the beta testing phase? Is it regression? What axis player would be ok with 200 tigers sitting in some abstract 'pool'????

HELP US DEVS

[X(][X(]

[kirkgregerson]

ORIGINAL: molchomor

Lucky you, I have 200+ tigers out of 300 produced sitting in the pool, with only 6 units interested in using it.

And nothing I can do about it.

Come on. Please molchomor tell me you're joking about this. Ok, funny haha... now tell me it ain't so??

I'm going to be one pissed off SOB if I get to any point in my game where 200+ tigers are sitting in some damm pool!!! How much sense does that make? ZERO!

[:@]

[karonagames]

How many Tigers are in the 6 units? What TOE%? What is the max. TOE% of the 6 units. What losses have they suffered.

If there have been minimal losses in the 6 units then no demand exists for replacement tanks to be sent forward.

Provide more data and we may be able to figure out if there is a problem.

[kirkgregerson]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

How many Tigers are in the 6 units? What TOE%? What is the max. TOE% of the 6 units. What losses have they suffered.

If there have been minimal losses in the 6 units then no demand exists for replacement tanks to be sent forward.

Provide more data and we may be able to figure out if there is a problem.

I'm sorry... but throw all this type of logic out and if we can get a screen shot to prove/show 200 tigers in the pool... umm we have a problem with the game. Anything after that with the logic for units and TOE has to accommodate the common sense and reality of the time. WitE is trying to 'keep it real' right? So if the question of would 200 tigers EVER be sitting back in some factory warehouse (pool?) waiting on a unit's TOE to ask for them plausible? Which IMO and knowledge of the eastern campaign it is NOT plausible. Well then the real issue is in the code logic in the game. Cause I can tell you that the German high command would find a way to utilize the 200 tigers ASAP!

[karonagames]

If there are 6 units that use Tigers and they have a maximum capacity of x, and they are holding x then there is nowhere else for spare tanks to go. The game does not create new units to mop up the capacity, nor can players create new units.

There have been threads requesting the ability to change vehicle types manually, in the same way that you can with Aircraft, but I think the response was that this would not be high on the priority list.

[molchomor]

Yeah, it sucks.

Also amazing to see that many of my pz. divisions really seem to prefer the T34 and T70, well I guess they get a better deal getting 3-4 T34s than 2-3 Hummels or Wespe which is what the average unit will get as you can see below.

[kirkgregerson]

OHH SNAP. There it is. I'm now depressed for the rest of the day. WOW, I really REALLY hope this will be fixed in 1.04? What the heck is going on here? My guess is the logic in WitE does not accommodate the 'common sense' of the times in that these surplus vehicles need to be somehow used on the front or the ability for the axis to create some ADHOC brigades or more SUs? Make it an AP cost to do .. makes sense.

To me this is an example how the somewhat rigid TOE concept can fall on it's face. Because now were out of the realm of a realistic WW2 eastern front game when it comes down to these types of situations. That's my 2cents anyways. It's just too bad.

[jzardos]

Wow.  That's no joke.  Without trying to be too confrontational with some that are very much 'in-love' with the game to be objective about these types of anomalies (for lack of better word).  Don't get me wrong, WitE is the best WW2 game I've played to-date.  But this NEEDs to be fixed.  I'm sorry but it's unacceptable for developers to think any axis player would not be pulling his hair our to see these types of pool numbers.  Think about it...

Yes, how did this make it out of beta?  Not trying to offend, just trying to understand and maybe get a reasonable explanation?

Thanks

[abulbulian]

Let me try and explain.  What I believe we have here with the Tigers is a situation where a player is doing so much better than historical that the units that can hold Tigers are full in TOE and thus the pool grows as more are made.  Yes, I do agree it's not realistic in the concept of the Germans not finding a way to utilize these tanks. The problem is the game does not have a way to utilize them and get them to the front. 

So testers didn't really see this as a problem as in most cases the axis player would not have this type of 'surplus'?  Unless there's some regression and some units are not able to receive the tigers as they use to?  That's as much as I know or can speculate on.  

Either way, I'm definitely one that would like to have some flexibility in utilizing my 'pool' more and thus avoiding these types of freakish situations from every arising.  My guess is that 1.04 will not touch this pool area.  Maybe 1.05 will?  Let's hope so.

[Great_Ajax]

The problem is figuring out exactly how many pieces of equipment and vehicles got sent to the East as replacements historically and then incorporating those numbers into a production model that changes dynamically with how many of these units are deployed at one time. Not an easy solution here.

Trey

[abulbulian]

I think it can be simplified. This is one of those situations where there's no need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

On average about 60-80% of all resources went to the east front. However, el hefe, I disgree with you statement as I don't believe any items in the 'pool' are there waiting to be distributed between different fronts (east, west, etc). Are not these pool #'s are specifically for the eastern front???

If we can establish this fact, I think we can both agree it's implausible for WitE to ever build up a pool of 200 tigers that are already slated for deployment to the eastern front. Let's not take the approach here that the game is always right and we need to figure out how to explain away these finding. Let's all please be objective and as such we'll be considerate to the players of WitE. I found that some of the testers and 'helper' devs/coders can be a bit too defensive and less objective at times. Which understandable to occur.


[:)]

[jzardos]

ORIGINAL: molchomor

Yeah, it sucks.

Also amazing to see that many of my pz. divisions really seem to prefer the T34 and T70, well I guess they get a better deal getting 3-4 T34s than 2-3 Hummels or Wespe which is what the average unit will get as you can see below.

Molchomor, I think you should file this as a potential bug? Unless somebody can say this is WAD, to which I would argue WTF. Otherwise, it's just going to get swept under the carpet or lost until some other poor sap axis players stumble on it. Also, my guess is the logic is universal with equipment and TOE so there could be similar situations for Soviet players.

[Berkut]

Hehe, I think it is funny that everyone is so jazzed up about Tigers.

ZOMG! Tigers! (fwapfwapfwap) Me Tigers are sitting there not being used! Get a rope!

Find the units that use Tigers, and commit them to some fighting. Problem solved.

No need to make fundamental changes to the game in order to deal with trivial issues like this - assuming it isn't simply a bug.

[molchomor]

Yes, all this is as per game design (aka putting historical shackles on even small things like what type of equipment a certain unit gets).

Actually I don't mind my divisions using captured T34/T70s but I only have captured around 50 T34 and 30 T70 during less than one year of fighting (42-43, but I am a lousy player and am losing against the AI). When on the edge, using this type of equipment when better stuff is sitting in the pool feels very sub-par. One would also think that after almost 110+ corps destroyed (not counting divisions and brigades) you would salvage more than that but quite possibly those figures are historically correct? Can't remember reading about captured T34s being shipped to other fronts but hey it could well be what is happening.

Instead of the optional micromanaging of production you had in the predecessor games - you know have the mandatory micromanaging of the command structure and railroads. So lost one but gained two [:)]

[kirkgregerson]

ORIGINAL: Berkut

Hehe, I think it is funny that everyone is so jazzed up about Tigers.

ZOMG! Tigers! (fwapfwapfwap) Me Tigers are sitting there not being used! Get a rope!

Find the units that use Tigers, and commit them to some fighting. Problem solved.

No need to make fundamental changes to the game in order to deal with trivial issues like this - assuming it isn't simply a bug.

Well some of us bought this game for a realistic feel for WW2 eastern front. If you're of the opinion that it's 'no big deal' for 200 Tigers or whatever tanks to be sitting around in some abstract 'pool', I guess you're not one of these people. Or maybe you just don't understand that the 'tank' was too valuable of a commodity during WW2 to be sitting around collecting dusts.

But thanks for chirping in with you opinion...

[RedLancer]

I agree with Berkut & Molkomor this isn't a bug this is as I understand it the game engine working as designed.

Each ground element has a type - Tigers are Heavy Tanks. Each TOE(OB) is created using specific vehicle type e.g. Panther D (Type: Medium Tank) and resupply accordingly - but if there aren't any Panther D s available the engine looks to fill the gap with another Medium Tank type e.g. PzIVg or Panther A etc.

The problem here is that Heavy Tank production is exceeding Heavy Tank attrition as only Hvy Tank Bns and some (elite & SS) Pz Divs use Hvy Tanks. The best approach might be to thrash your Heavy Tk Bns (schwere Pz Abteilung) in repeated combat (or change Tigers to Med Tanks in the generic data files )