OT: Aces high 2?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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offenseman
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by offenseman »

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Oh boy, now you guys have me itching to try it out. I flew a bit in Battleground: Europe/WW2OL but mostly stuck to the ground, and I've been meaning to try out AHII.

How long does it take an eager newb to mix it up?

The learning curve is steep. The average beginner has a .25 kill to death ratio and that is probably after there two week trial. Beside mapping controls, and learning how to play, etc. the best thing to do is be cautious. The temptation is to rush into battle and the beginner is then quickly shot down without learning anything. Stay on the fringes of the furball or ground battle, try to keep from getting outnumbered. If you do that you learn on the job as it were. Another thing to do is get with a trainer. Trainers are volunteers that will train you how to do stuff. Asking politely within the game will also get you help as long as you don't ask questions that show that you haven't even looked at the basics like how to turn on the engine, etc.
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by bhawes »


I'll toss my opinion in as well as far as AH2. It's an excellent game available 24x7x365 with pilots flying from all over the world. Arena populations fluctuate anywhere from 100 to 400 guys and gals signed on split across 3 "nations" depending on time of day. Learning curve is deceptive, you can learn to fly effectively within your 2 week trial. You won't learn to kill effectively(ie kill more than you die) for 6 months to a year.

I've been flying online multiplayer air combat since 1992 (Airwarrior) back when the creators of AH were just game pilots too. hitech took the technology to the next level creating Aces High. IL2 is a pretty boxed game with limited multiplayer that gets a lot right, but doesn't do what AH does.

The biggest learning challenge is not the game mechanics or setups but in knowing how and what each planes can do in a given situation, keeping yourself in a favorable position and acquiring the ability to 1. recognize it and 2. capitalize on it.

2 to 4 times a year there are large historical scenarios run for any player to join, THESE are the ones the game was geared to train you for. Up to 1000 guys flying 4-8 frames across the timespan of 2 or 3 weeks. Think a reenactment of Battle of Britain, The 8th bombing capaign, Battle of Midway etc.. This is where the game shines.


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crsutton
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: offenseman

Interesting seeing some of the impressions of AHII that some people have.  HiTech Creations should take a look at their marketing perhaps.  As a long time player, I can add a few things from a person who has actually played it. :)

"Mmmmmmmm. Looks like the poor cousin of IL2. If you want hardcore air combat then Il2 is still the way to go. Lots more planes, lots better graphics, better flight mechanics and virtually no kiddies or hackers. And, did I mention that playing on line is free..."

Ummmm no.  People who are used to playing both games in depth tell me that IL2's flight model is pedestrian compared to AHII.  There are very few squeakers (kiddies) and almost never a hacker playing. Most people that complain about hackers in any multiplayer game tend to be those that are not very good and everyone who schools them is a "hacker".  HTC maintains a clean game that is enforced by people turning in films of anything that MIGHT be a hack.  Yes it is not free though. It is $15 USD/mo

"Who plays single player in the first place?!? AHII's Artificial Idiot = 5 planes flying ring around your airfield so you can test guns on them. Literally."

Sorry. the offline version which is free does have that as an option. However there are plenty of mods for free that incorporate missions and other aspects of the game.  The non free version is much more than shooting at 5 clay pigeons.  At any given time, more when the USA east coast is during the day/evening, there are hundreds of players playing and one can jump into the game with them.  There are also dedicated events such as FSO, Friday Squad Operations, that are more historical and follow a theme that recreates a specific battle over the course of three Fridays.  The number of players who participate in that is 400-600.  It is a two hour, one life event, you get killed, you are done. 

"Besides, yoiu sooner or later get sick of flying mustangs and spitfires over and over again."

That would suck for sure and AHII does have Two versions of the Pony, B and D models, as well as 7 versions of the Spit, (I,V, Seafire, IX, VIII,XIV,XVI), but it also has A6M2, A6M5c, George, Frank, Betty, Peggy, Val, Kate, Tony, C202, C205, 6 different 109s, 4 different 190s, Me262, Me163, Ju88, Ju87, Bf110 in two flavors. Il2, Yak 9 T and U, La5 and La7, Lanc, 3 Hurris, 2 Mossies, 2 P40s, 4 P47s, 2 P39s, 3 P38s, B26, 2 B25s, B17, B24, B29, A20, Bostons. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

There are also ground vehicles and they are close to releasing a new system for that, that incorporates less arcade style of play and more realism.  IMO it is already not very arcadish anyway. 

They offer a free two week online trial.  If you want to maximize that, download the software, get used to things offline and set your views. Then "join" and try it for two weeks.  That way you need not rely on the opinions of people who looked at there website and said it sucked with no real actual knowledge of the game. :)




Well it sounds like a lot more variety than I realized but watching the aircraft on line, they do seem much simpler both graphically and in the flight and damage dynamic. However, that may just be a matter of taste, and sometimes simpler is better as I am pretty much overmatched on line in IL2.

However, you are talking about close to $200 per year for this experience. Once again it is a matter of taste but "homey just don't play that s**t [;)] Perhaps it is a factor of my age but I just decided not to go down the subscription on line path when it was introduced about a decade ago. I started playing the origial Doom on line a long time ago and in my universe, you pay for the game and play on line for free. I just can't move beyond that point. Maybe I am missing out on a lot of pleasure but I got more than I can handle enjoying the free stuff out there.
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crsutton
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Theres also Oleg's Il2: Cliffs of Dover that has been out for 2 days here(US release April 18th or 19th). I'm going to run my copy from the post office in a few hours, but reading forums it seems to be a whole new ballgame when it comes to the level of detail and simulation in flight dynamics, engine and system modelling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6frnSvS9J8
Not sure how you would know all that without having access to the code of either program. :)

Either way, your opinion is noted. I just didn't want the OP to get the idea that he should not even try AHII out. If he does he may not like it and maybe he will like it a lot. Its free to try, unlike IL2 which you have to buy to try- as far as I know anyway.

Sure, no reason not to try! But I dont think 10 USD for the best WW2 flight simulator there is, both single and multiplayer wise, is a big price. [:)]


So he finally finished it after almost a decade of work and many, many titles !!! Hurrah for Oleg. Too bad my four year old system will most likely not handle it. But when I do upgrade.....

Wow. I just went over to the forum to check out the word on Cliffs of Dover and it looks like they have put out a real stinker.. I have never seen so many pissed off consumers since Cossacks II was introduced....[:D] I have only two words Epilepsy Filter...[8D]
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Erkki
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by Erkki »

Yubilepsy filter removed yesterday. My GTX 460 2gb runs it pretty OK as soon as either trees or buildings are set to "lowest", other settings dont seem to matter that much.

First thing I did was getting my butt handled to me, flying a Hurricane, by a He 115 float plane. [:D]
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LoBaron
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by LoBaron »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: Erkki

Theres also Oleg's Il2: Cliffs of Dover that has been out for 2 days here(US release April 18th or 19th). I'm going to run my copy from the post office in a few hours, but reading forums it seems to be a whole new ballgame when it comes to the level of detail and simulation in flight dynamics, engine and system modelling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6frnSvS9J8
Not sure how you would know all that without having access to the code of either program. :)

Either way, your opinion is noted. I just didn't want the OP to get the idea that he should not even try AHII out. If he does he may not like it and maybe he will like it a lot. Its free to try, unlike IL2 which you have to buy to try- as far as I know anyway.

Sure, no reason not to try! But I dont think 10 USD for the best WW2 flight simulator there is, both single and multiplayer wise, is a big price. [:)]


So he finally finished it after almost a decade of work and many, many titles !!! Hurrah for Oleg. Too bad my four year old system will most likely not handle it. But when I do upgrade.....

Wow. I just went over to the forum to check out the word on Cliffs of Dover and it looks like they have put out a real stinker.. I have never seen so many pissed off consumers since Cossacks II was introduced....[:D] I have only two words Epilepsy Filter...[8D]

No he did not finish. [;)]
He only started.
Every vet of IL2 knows what it was like when IL2 was released. Don´t listen to the kiddies complaining at ubi, they have no idea what they are talking about.

I trust Oleg to dedicate as much long-time support into SoW as he did with the original IL2 titles.
On release IL2 was a good game. The flight dynamics and the damage model where unbeatable for the time, some models were a bit off the scale, others were right
on spot. After 2-3 patches the first title, the oroginal IL2, was already as stable as it can get and they had included too many small fixes to count, just like the WitP teams
always did.
And then they realeased addon after addon, continued to patch an to finetune with the support of the community and on the base of an extremely accurate physics model,
and ended up with about 229 different flyable and plus 300 total plane types, each modelled up to the limit of the simulation engine!

The original is still without equal, even if I trust offenseman when he says AH2 is good, more so because the multiplayer is better than in IL2, naturally.

If he gets the support for SoW and is not thrown back by financial issues this will be the beginning of a new generation of WWII combat sim.

*DROOL*

I will wait until summer, then the first release will be either patched good enough to enjoy it unbiased, or at least the great community there will know how to tweak it to work flawless.
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GreyJoy
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by GreyJoy »

I've been flying IL2 and its expansion for over a decade now. The community has grown year by year with numbers of talented people. They created a group (called Deadalus i think) which cooperated directly with oleg maddox in the latest pacthes, making flyiable so many planes that you cannot even imagine if you haven't tried it.
The online gaming Experience is MASSIVE with IL2.
There are many servers "full-real", where the learning curve is veeery long and populated by real skilled aces.
The missions, in these servers, are realistic and challenging.
There are also many online "war-simulations" where, a dedicated battle generator, reproduces the ongoing war (let's say on the Africa front) along with the results of the opposite teams...
 
I don't think it's possibile to describe the IL2 online gaming experience only with words or even with videos. You really have to try it...the tension...the tactics... when you fly your bomber for half an hour in a formation with other 10 guys...connected by TS3 or something like that...with the group leader that keep on giving the coordinates (no radar or other gamey things...eyes navigation!), the engine setting...everything to keep the "box" closed...and then someone screams on the radio "Krauts on my 9 o'clock high!!!!"...and you start to hear the noise of your machine gus... ...and you see your buddies falling in pieces after a sliding brave passage of a dreaded 190... Well...SIMPLY AMAZING!!
 
Whatch this one!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIRCOzP2xiI  This was taken on WoP servers...
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by GreyJoy »

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Erkki
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by Erkki »

Hejsan Klunk. [8D]
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by LoBaron »

Nice vids GreyJoy.

I couldnt resist and bought CoD last weekend. [8|]

Its like I expected: The game itself is, at least compared to the average release, a beta version. This is nothing to feel bad about though
as Oleg is known for putting work behind the series for a healthy decade after release.

What it already can do: Looks stunning, the flight model is good to superb (depending on the aircraft), and the damage model is the best out there
by more than a margin.

There are a couple of issues with texture loading bottlenecks - which means loads of micro stutters - but they are working on it, no anti aliasing yet, multicore support
will be working soon and the rest, well I am patient because I know into what gem this simulation will turn in the future.

Made that screenshot yesterday, BF-109E1 training flight over France:

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Erkki
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by Erkki »

Runs pretty smooth after yesterday's update, actually smoother than il2, with all settings maxed... Multicore support fixed, apparently. [;)]

Its on beta yet, public (steam) release of the update should be on Monday.
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by LoBaron »

Thanks Erkki. [:)]
As I bought via steam Ill have to wait till monday sadly.
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by TSCofield »

I've flown both.

I've reviewed both.

Comparing IL2 and AH2 is really like comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruit but that is where the similarities end.

Aces High 2 is probably the best massively multiplayer online WW2 flight sim currently produced. While IL2, especially modded versions, are very good and there are some pretty good sized arenas there is nothing quite like logging into a 400 plus player arena and taking off with 35 to 50 different players on a strike on an enemy airbase. Squadrons in the game often are involved in special events and historical reinactments that recreate some of the biggest air battles of the war. In one Midway scenerio I was in an SBD tasked with finding the KB. That was my mission. It seems boring until you find yourself surrounded by 15 Zero's trying to keep yourself alive long enough to send off the coordinates of the enemy task force. The recreations put you in the war during that time.

It isn't perfect though. Graphically the game looks dated. This is somewhat planned since many players don't have the top of the line machines that many IL2 or CoD flyers have. The dowload size has limited the detail in the game in the past although it isn't as big a deal now. But the basic engine dates back to 1998 and it shows. Flight models are top notch, as mentioned before, take off the flier assist and the game can be very difficult. With it you can fly but you can't do some of the fancy maneuvers that veteran fliers can. I don't know if the models are 'better' but they are very good. Probably the biggest drawback, IMHO is the main arena setup. While large the aircraft used are somewhat generic, not by design but by reality. Most fliers tend to jump into late war aircraft since those are the ones that tend to survive the longest and get the most kills. You rarely see a stuka, a dauntless or a kate in the main arena. Early model 109s or P40s are rare since they are outclassed in the arenas. There are early and mid war arenas but they are pretty sparse most times. I personally got sick of fighting SpitXIVs, LA7s and F4U4s. It simply got bored for me but I was really into it for a while.

Similar games are Warbirds and Battleground Europe. Warbirds is very similar to AH2 but BE is a true combined arms simulator with air, ground and naval units. It was once known as WW2 Online and after a really, really, really rough start has turned into a pretty decent game. It isn't perfect and there are some detractions in the game but it isn't bad.

IL2 right now is still the gold standard of boxed flight simulations. IL2: 1946 even unmodded is arguably the best flight simulation ever made. It combined very good graphics with above average flight and damage models, outstanding multiplayer and a decent campaign. People have 'modded' the game to make it even better.

Other really good flight simulations include Battle of Britain 2 by A2A simulatons. To be honest, this game has CoD beaten hands down in most departments. The game has Rowan's old BOB campaign, a true wargame like campaign to go with really good flight models, pretty nice graphics and very tough ai opponents. If it had multiplayer capability (they never got it working and the original BOB MP was horrible) it would be the king of WW2 flight simulations. It doesn't get the credit that it deserves. Yes, I am that high on it. IL2:BoB may outdo it eventually but from what I have seen it needs work. I just got got it (literally today) so I won't comment on it at all.

Hope this helps. AH has a free trial so there isn't any problem just downloading and trying it for yourself. Same with Warbirds or Battleground Europe. Most have 2wk to 1 month trials for new signups. Might be worth a look for you.
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by LoBaron »

Hi Tom, very interesting analysis!
 
The only thing I notice is:
ORIGINAL:  SimHq Tom Cofield
[...]To be honest, this game has CoD beaten hands down in most departments.[...]
[...]IL2:BoB may outdo it eventually but from what I have seen it needs work.  I just got got it (literally today) so I won't comment on it at all.[...]

You are aware that CoD and what you call IL2:BoB is the same game?
 
Personally I am not sure that any flightsim will be able to beat CoD hands down after a couple of patches in the areas of realism
and complexity, but since I don´t know or own the other sims mentioned this is purely personal preferrence and I may be wrong.
 
To look at the CEM threads of CoD you already get a feel about how deep this simulation really is. Everything, from the ammount
of pressurized air available for emergency gear down to artificial horizon delay after violent manouvres, is simulated to the last detail.
They still got a lot of finetuning to do on these values to get it right but the software structure behind the models is simply amazing.
 
This is not meant to compare to other simultations on a "whats better" competition though, the market got so small in the last decade that every single simulation deserves the right to be called unique on its own and is the result of programers´ dedication to their work beyond
money making.
 
 
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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by TSCofield »

Yes, I am saying that A2A's BoB2 is better that IL2:CoD right now. That may change in the future becasue CoD has a lot more potential due to the game engine but for now CoD is too buggy and too incomplete to beat out even the original IL2 series. Rowan's original BoB was a buggy mess too but A2A took that engine and created an outstanding game.

My current issues with CoD aren't with the details that are available in this game. This has potential to be the greatest flight sim made but this is going to take a lot of patching before that will happen.

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RE: OT: Aces high 2?

Post by LoBaron »

Thx for the clarification.
Doh, now I have to take a look at BoB2. [8|]
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