ORIGINAL: bean5671
I did not purchase the games myself my kid did from Gamestop I tried to return them and was kind of laughed at that I even asked
I knew steam would not work my kid did not so I really did try I called THQ really nice guy though he said I was pirateing so I ask for my money back and he refused, I called 2k they told me that they cold not condone it but they will not do anything, I spoke to 2 people at Valve that just said tough you have to eat the cost
its not the money its the principal its how the game industry is defining piracy its a little to scrict for my taste
if I paid the dev for it I should have the right to play it period now what am I paying for
I understand your point - I didn't realize these were purchased at a retail store rather than online. GameStop absolutely should have allowed you to return them. If the DRM doesn't work on your system, the game doesn't work on your system. That should be an automatic refund if they can't get it working for you. While yours is a rare case, it's still a disturbing story as far as how a customer can end up with no options despite having bought a game legally. I wish you luck, if I were you I'd try GameStop again and if the local store won't help you with a refund call their HQ.
is ok I told my kid I would buy him 2 games that will work so I am buying him Battlefield A and Distant worlds today I would rather he play those instead of homefront or shooters anyway
plus I will play battlefield (more then he will)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
@Perturabo: I don't think a game going freeware after several years at the end of all support and interest in profiting from it by the publisher is quite the same thing as "piracy," but correct me if I'm in error on that point.
The point to which I understand "pirates" have brought the hobby/market, is that many publishers and distributors seem to feel both justified and motivated to implement increasingly restrictive EULAs and DRM schemes. I question if they would have done that if it were not for the perceived revenue losses from piracy.
I tend to think that Brad Wardell's (chief guy at Stardock If memory serves) view of this topic is valid. He seems to argue that, (a) the folks who ripoff the publishers/developers by making use of hacked illegal copies of the games would never buy the games in the first place, and therefore that the majority of the "lost revenue" are not actually lost at all; as such (b) developing and maintaining good relations with those segments of the market whom ARE likely prospective customers and using only mundane and less annoying means of securing the product (e.g., serial keys) is the best long-term strategy.
Obviously Valve has taken a rather different strategy with its promulgation of Steamworks, not only as a security scheme for their own games, but also as a DRM and distribution REQUIREMENT for various other publishers products. I agree with you that Valve's primary motivation with Steamworks is not so much about preventing piracy, though I suspect they present that argument to the publishers with whom they seek to partner.
The Steam client app in fact seems to me to be more of a means to corner the largest possible segment of various portions of the gamer market by bottlenecking users into one site, where they are exposed to ads, and incentivized with low unit prices, a very broad selection and easy accessibility. None of that strikes me as being intrusive per se, Gamersgate, Impulse, and the Matrix online store all strive to accomplish much the same. Naturally, you want to get customers "into your store," and increase the likelihood that they will buy products in your store.
The intolerable dimensions of Steamworks and the Steam client scheme to me seems to be:
(1) the fine print nature of Steam's exclusiveness on an increasing number of third party titles.
For example, you cannot play Civ5 without installing and using the Steam client app at least once.
Supposedly the "Offline Mode" is a way to be able to gain the ability to use the game by networkign to the Steam servers only once without ever needing to network with Steam's portal a second or third time. The fine print on the Amazon sales pages for the game says "one time network connection . . ."
However, I've encountered far too many guys complaining on forums about how it doesn't really work this way, else it is tricky to get it to work this way. It seems that it probably IS possible to get it to function without ever having to network a second or third time, but in reality, depending on user expertise, and system configurations, it might in fact be far less hassle to just let the damn thing phone home every time.
Obviously it serves Valve's interests that as many of the users they service with Steamworks as possible are "phoning home" as often as possible = bigger volume of active users on the Steam servers+more eyeballs looking at their ads = more volume of sales, and more leverage as the dominant force in the PC game retail scene.
By setting the defaults so that it can be annoying if not seemingly impossible to get the Offline Mode to work hassle free, they have managed to avoid the potentially illegal policy of making games like Civ5 "require constant internet connectivity" to play them, while at the same time leveraging the functionality to maximize their screen time exposure to the users. I find that to be cryptic, sneaky and just plain intolerable.
The users deserve to have a one-click, foolproof, functionally-perfect OFF button. The various issues with modding, patching, default file installation locations, and complications involved with having multiple copies of the game installed on the same machine (for example for purposes of playing multiple different mods or patches) are all related to this big issue of how the "Offline Mode" doesn't seem to be easy, consistent or simple.
2) The EULA. Steam's EULA is the most disempowering of the consumer that I've ever read. Basically, by agrering to install their software you are agreeing to never claim any grievance to them, and agreeing that they can revoke your license(s) at any time. The plurality of that word is crucial, because in the EULA Valve includes a clause that basically says "we gaurantee NOTHING."
I hear about some guys who have literally hundreds of "virtual" games on their machine. When Steam undergoes a collapse, buyout, or takeover, or simply gets sold, the terms of the EULA which its millions of users have agreed to mean that, all those hundreds of millions of licenses could easily go *poof* and from a prima facie standpoint, there would be no basis for anyone to gripe or grumble that the products/services they paid for were terminated by the patron.
I suspect that when the suits actually ensue, they will deal primarily with the fact that the advertising is not exactly clear cut on some of the games that are partnered to use Steamworks client app (e.g., Civ5 or Fallout New Vegas) else that the EULA itself is unfair to expect people to agree to.
is ok I told my kid I would buy him 2 games that will work so I am buying him Battlefield A and Distant worlds today I would rather he play those instead of homefront or shooters anyway
plus I will play battlefield (more then he will)
Distant Worlds is a great game. I bought DW plus the Return of the Shakturi game 2 weeks ago. It will be money well spent. I recommend the latest beta's there quite stable. I found two bugs and they were squashed inside of a week.
@Perturabo: I don't think a game going freeware after it all support and interest in profiting from it by the publisher is quite the same thing as "piracy," but correct me if I'm in error on that point.
The point I understand "pirates" have brought us to is that many publishers and distributors seem to feel both justified and motivated to implement increasingly restrictive EULAs and DRM schemes. I question if they would have done that if it were not for the perceived revenue losses from piracy.
I tend to think that Brad Wardell's view of this topic is valid. He seems to argue that, (a) the folks who ripoff the publishers/developers by making use of hacked illegal copies of the games would never buy the games in the first place, and therefore that the majority of the "lost revenue" is not actually lost at all; as such (b) developing and maintaining good relations with those segments of the market whom ARE likely prospective customers and using only mundane and less annoying means of securing the product (e.g., serial keys) is the best long-term strategy.
Obviously Valve has taken a rather different strategy with its promulgation of Steamworks, not only as a security scheme for their own games, but also as a DRM and distribution REQUIREMENT for various other publishers products. I agree with you that Valve's primary motivation with Steamworks is not so much about preventing piracy, though I suspect they present that argument to the publishers with whom they seek to partner. The Steam client app in fact seems to me to be more of a means to corner the largest possible segment of various portions of the gamer market by bottlenecking users into one site, where they are exposed to ads, and incentivized with low unit prices, a very broad selection and easy accessibility. None of that strikes me as being intrusive per se, Gamersgate, Impulse, and the Matrix online store all strive to accomplish much the same. Naturally, you want to get customers "into your store," and increase the likelihood that they will buy products in your store.
The intolerable dimensions of Steamworks and the Steam client scheme to me seem to be:
(1) the fine print nature of Steam's exclusiveness on an increasing number of titles. For example, you cannot play Civ5 without installing and using the Steam client app at least once. Supposedly this offline mode is a way to be able to gain the ability to use the game only once without ever needing to network with Steam's portal ever again. This is what the fine print on the Amazon sales pages for the game says "one time network connection . . ." However, I've encountered far too many guys complaining on forums about how it doesn't really work this way, else it is tricky to get it to work this way. It seems that it probably IS possible to get it to function without ever having to network a second or third time, but in reality, depending on user expertise, and system configurations, it might in fact be far less hassle to just let the damn thing phone home every time. Obviously it serves Valve's interests that as many of the games they service with Steamworks as possible are "phoning home" as often as possible. By setting the defaults so that it can be annoying if not seemingly impossible to get the Offline Mode to work hassle free, they have managed to avoid the potentially illegal policy of making games like Civ5 "requiring internet connectivity" to play them, while at the same time leveraging the functionality to maximize their screen time exposure to the users. I find that to be cryptic, sneaky and just plain intolerable. The users deserves to have a one-click, foolproof, functionally-perfect OFF button. The various issues with modding, patching, default file installation locations, and complications involved with having multiple copies of the game installed on the same machine (for example for purposes of playing multiple different mods or patches) are all related to this big issue of how the "Offline Mode" doesn't seem to be easy, consistent or simple.
2) The EULA. Steam's EULA is the most disempowering of the consumer that I've ever read. Basically, by agrering to install their software you are agreeing to never claim any grievance to them, and agreeing that they can revoke your license(s) at any time. The plurality of that word is crucial, because in the EULA Valve includes a clause that basically says "we gaurantee NOTHING."
I hear about some guys who have literally hundreds of virtual games on their machine. When Steam undergoes a collapse, buyout, or takeover, or simply gets sold, the terms of the EULA which its millions of users have agreed to mean that, all those hundreds of millions of licenses could easily go *poof* and from a prima facie standpoint, there would be no basis for anyone to gripe or grumble that the product/service the paid for was terminated.
I suspect that when the suits actually ensue, they will deal primarily with the fact that the advertising is not exactly clear cut on some of the games that are just partnered to use Steamworks client app (e.g., Civ5 or Fallout New Vegas) else that the EULA itself is unfair to expect people to agree to.
WOW you are much more articulate than me I will leave the writing to you and just focus on my code [&o]
GOOD POST I never read the steamworks EULA I will have to now
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
@Perturabo: I don't think a game going freeware after several years at the end of all support and interest in profiting from it by the publisher is quite the same thing as "piracy," but correct me if I'm in error on that point.
The thing is that all the abandonware, C64 and Amiga sites are using the previous work of the cracker scene. And this work wouldn't happen without competition about who cracks the games first. Even G.O.G. is using scene cracks to remove DRM from games.
Basically, without piracy, old games would be dead and buried and limited to the copies circulating eBay which would probably have grossly inflated prices and would often require having old hardware/OS. There would be no abandonware sites which would lead to no G.O.G. and no old games on steam because no one would consider selling downloads 10+ year old games to be a good business.
ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Obviously Valve has taken a rather different strategy with its promulgation of Steamworks, not only as a security scheme for their own games, but also as a DRM and distribution REQUIREMENT for various other publishers products. I agree with you that Valve's primary motivation with Steamworks is not so much about preventing piracy, though I suspect they present that argument to the publishers with whom they seek to partner.
Too be honest, I suspect that Valve presents it as a measure against re-selling and borrowing. Take in account that publishers are ready to do stuff like free day-one DLCs to prevent re-selling, so they probably consider it as dangerous competition.
ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
The Steam client app in fact seems to me to be more of a means to corner the largest possible segment of various portions of the gamer market by bottlenecking users into one site, where they are exposed to ads, and incentivized with low unit prices, a very broad selection and easy accessibility. None of that strikes me as being intrusive per se, Gamersgate, Impulse, and the Matrix online store all strive to accomplish much the same. Naturally, you want to get customers "into your store," and increase the likelihood that they will buy products in your store.
The intolerable dimensions of Steamworks and the Steam client scheme to me seems to be:
(1) the fine print nature of Steam's exclusiveness on an increasing number of third party titles.
For example, you cannot play Civ5 without installing and using the Steam client app at least once.
Supposedly the "Offline Mode" is a way to be able to gain the ability to use the game by networkign to the Steam servers only once without ever needing to network with Steam's portal a second or third time. The fine print on the Amazon sales pages for the game says "one time network connection . . ."
However, I've encountered far too many guys complaining on forums about how it doesn't really work this way, else it is tricky to get it to work this way. It seems that it probably IS possible to get it to function without ever having to network a second or third time, but in reality, depending on user expertise, and system configurations, it might in fact be far less hassle to just let the damn thing phone home every time.
Obviously it serves Valve's interests that as many of the users they service with Steamworks as possible are "phoning home" as often as possible = bigger volume of active users on the Steam servers+more eyeballs looking at their ads = more volume of sales, and more leverage as the dominant force in the PC game retail scene.
By setting the defaults so that it can be annoying if not seemingly impossible to get the Offline Mode to work hassle free, they have managed to avoid the potentially illegal policy of making games like Civ5 "require constant internet connectivity" to play them, while at the same time leveraging the functionality to maximize their screen time exposure to the users. I find that to be cryptic, sneaky and just plain intolerable.
The users deserve to have a one-click, foolproof, functionally-perfect OFF button. The various issues with modding, patching, default file installation locations, and complications involved with having multiple copies of the game installed on the same machine (for example for purposes of playing multiple different mods or patches) are all related to this big issue of how the "Offline Mode" doesn't seem to be easy, consistent or simple.
Very good analysis of the situation. It really may be a marketing plot.
That point you are making about the abandonware games relying on the pirated copies is very interesting Perturabo. I cannot say that it seems to be an inaccurate analysis, and it raises a very interesting paradox.
Personally, I have great loathing for people who do not want those who worked to produce a title to get paid and are willing to rip them off. But then there is this long-term dimension too. I suppose that eventually MOST games become abandonware, though some probably have far more market longevity than others.
Personally, I have great loathing for people who do not want those who worked to produce a title to get paid and are willing to rip them off.
There is a flip side of the coin. The majority of revenue goes to people who are not involved into development, but merely pay royalties to studios, don't hesitate to dumb down games for the sake of higher profits, and invent business models to eliminate intermediate trade and second hand market, while contiuously delivering less to the customer. Regarding these facts, tell me who is more detrimental for our hobby: pirates or the copyright industry?
To hell with pirates and hackers who have brought our hobby to this point.
Oddly enough, I've had some bad DRM issues in the past that were solved with a simple No-CD hack, because the DRM software was preventing my game from playing or, worse, causing harm to my hardware.
There are actually people who would label me as a pirate for doing that. It's surprising to see how some of these DRM defenders can toss such accusations around, and sleep well at night, but they're becoming fewer and fewer; Or maybe just less open about it. [:D]
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).
That is pretty standard for any EULA. Otherwise it would open them to all sorts of potential law suits.
Read the World of Warcraft EULA sometime, it does not offer an guarantees either. It does not even offer compensation for your monthly subscription if the servers go down.
It also states that Blizzard can at any time revoke your service or shut down the entire game with so many days notice.
If you read the EULA for any game with an online component it says they can shut down the online component after a certain time. For most sports games it is 365 days after a game is released. For Starcraft 2 I think it was also 12 months after the game has been released.
EULA's do not mean a company is evil or trying to screw you. They have to be written in order to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Which is to protect the company and it's employees from litigation.
I dunno Greybriar. This clause is pretty extreme too:
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Software"). You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that for reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Software may change over time. You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.
So basically, to summarize this clause: you agree to relinquish control of your computer to them.
The other one that is pretty remarkable I thought:
10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES
A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.
B. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY--MERCHANDISE.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT WITH REGARD TO ANY MERCHANDISE YOU PURCHASE VIA STEAM AS YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY, IN ADDITION TO THE REMEDIES EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN SECTION 3(C), VALVE MAY INCLUDE IN ITS OPTION THE RIGHT TO PAY TO YOU THE AMOUNT OF DIRECT DAMAGES ACTUALLY INCURRED BY YOU IN REASONABLE RELIANCE ON SUCH MERCHANDISE, AS LONG AS THAT AMOUNT DOES NOT EXCEED THE AMOUNT YOU PAID VALVE FOR THE MERCHANDISE GIVING RISE TO THOSE DAMAGES.
THIS SECTION WILL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.
11. INDEMNIFICATION
You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Valve, its licensors and their affiliates from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, that arise from or in connection with breach of this Agreement, use of Steam or any Subscription or any related content, or any User Generated Information, including, but not limited to, the creation, distribution, promotion and use of any Mods, by you or any person(s) using your Account. Valve reserves the right, at its own expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter otherwise subject to indemnification by you. In that event, you shall have no further obligation to provide indemnification to Valve in that matter. This Section regarding Indemnification shall survive termination of this Agreement.
So, supposedly, before you can play (lets say) Civ5 or Fallout New Vegas, or a variety of other third party games that have no affiliation with Valve whatsoever, except to set up exclusive authorization/distribution deals with them, you first have to agree to Steams EULA and install the Steam Client App. By doing that, you are agreeing that, if Steam screws up and your game is corrupted and unplayable, it is not their fault and you will pay their attorney's fees and court costs should you seek to take action against them! [:D]
Yeah right . . . WHY would I EVER want anything peddled by this firm on my machines?
Standard for an MMOG perhaps. Many of the games available on Steam are single player games for which network connectivity is in no way inherent to gameplay.
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: Greybriar
ORIGINAL: bean5671
....GOOD POST I never read the steamworks EULA I will have to now
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).
That is pretty standard for any EULA. Otherwise it would open them to all sorts of potential law suits.
Read the World of Warcraft EULA sometime, it does not offer an guarantees either. It does not even offer compensation for your monthly subscription if the servers go down.
It also states that Blizzard can at any time revoke your service or shut down the entire game with so many days notice.
If you read the EULA for any game with an online component it says they can shut down the online component after a certain time. For most sports games it is 365 days after a game is released. For Starcraft 2 I think it was also 12 months after the game has been released.
EULA's do not mean a company is evil or trying to screw you. They have to be written in order to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Which is to protect the company and it's employees from litigation.
Standard for an MMOG perhaps. Many of the games available on Steam are single player games for which network connectivity is in no way inherent to gameplay.
That is pretty standard for any EULA. Otherwise it would open them to all sorts of potential law suits.
Read the World of Warcraft EULA sometime, it does not offer an guarantees either. It does not even offer compensation for your monthly subscription if the servers go down.
It also states that Blizzard can at any time revoke your service or shut down the entire game with so many days notice.
If you read the EULA for any game with an online component it says they can shut down the online component after a certain time. For most sports games it is 365 days after a game is released. For Starcraft 2 I think it was also 12 months after the game has been released.
EULA's do not mean a company is evil or trying to screw you. They have to be written in order to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Which is to protect the company and it's employees from litigation.
Read the EULA for Microsoft Windows. It has a clause in it which read virtually the same way, offering no guarantees against errors or potential software. Last time I read it is also promises no updates. Again, lowest common denominator.
Unfortunately the piracy and DRM issue isn't going to go away. A long time ago I remember speaking to a sales rep at a conference for a company who developed and distributed computer games. He sold exactly one copy of this game in Las Vegas NV. Everyone in town had a copy however and complained bitterly how he was ripping them off because he was charging for what they were getting from their friends for free. He left the conference and returned to ask his company to no longer support this particular platform for development due to piracy. I remember early in computer games of titles and companies going under because of lack of sales yet somehow everyone had a copy they got from someone else. Everyone I knew who was pirating stated that they did it because games were too expensive. My friends felt the correct price for a game was the cost of the disk only and any other money made was "ripping them off". Theft is a major issue everywhere. I didn't believe this until I worked retail and saw the MASSIVE amounts stolen from every store I ever worked in. As for the argument that stealing software isn't stealing something is plain foolish. We buy goods and services in our daily lives and software is a service. Programs don't grow on trees, someone writes them often for money. Stealing a service is still stealing.
As for steam, the computer isn't the same one your doing your work on I hope. If it's another computer take it to a friend/family member and log on and take it to offline mode. If you have a friend with in WIFI range see if they will let you piggy back their connection on a separate computer for a portion of their internet bill. If you can't have any connectivity in the house get a laptop you can easily take out and connect with for authentication.
If possible install a second line for internet access for the non work machines that is completely separate from the work network. If the work network is non cable see about installing a cable modem. You can discuss it with your work to insure their happy as well.
I have been out of the loop for to long
I bought my first PC in 86/87 a 386 sx moved to a 486dx2 in 89 that was my first gaming machine That machine was how I got my first real job ironically because I had pirated Autocad and wrote a little addon for my high school drafting class,
Softdesk bought it from me really they hired me but the program came with me, back than it was a sweet deal for a high school junior. Crazy how 20 years ago I did pirate a program and got hired for it but now I am not pirating but are paying the price for it[X(]
I moved to Autodesk after the merger and have been in the IT/GIS industry ever since.
Funny Autodesk was/is one ofthe toughest on pirates but they have not gone to these levels and still dont and last i looked a copy of REVIT or Catia cost between 6000 and 10000 dollars a license but are very easy to install heck its just a license file
With Autodesk it was always concurrent use if you had enough licenses for all the people who used it you could have it installed on every machine
even if you only owned one as long as that one license was not being used twice at the same time anyone could use it.
I was a big gamer and still have a ton of older titles that work thank you matrix for WIR.
Most of the pirates I knew back in the day either would not have bought the game anyway or just cracked it for the thrill
it seems they are going a bit overboard and are pushing people who would buy to pirating I know I will never buy a steam/EA/UBISOFT game if my kids buy one I will just crack it and install the crack
I will still buy it but if more people are feelling like I do then I think the game industry is creating their own perfect storm. They always said piracy hurts sales but it never really did not much anyway, if things keep moving in this direction it will become more of a problem not less
More people would rather play a cracked game because it has less hoops to jump through and is less restrictive
kids and life took me out of gaming other than matrix/paradox/stardock I have not purchased a mainstream game for a long time. However my kids are getting old enough to want the AAA titles so I will have to figure out something
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
I used to be a total war fan but with the last 3 titles requiring steam, I was not game(no thank you sir or mam!) All DMR has done was eliminate the used game market and made all sales a guaranteed one time deal.
I've been playing Steam games for years now and love it. No CDs. That's the best part. If my comp goes bust I can just redownload everything on my new comp. For example, I have several Steam games on my laptop.(Thank you Matrix for letting me play Distant Worlds and Storm over the Pacific without discs).
I have been unable to install or play several games because the disc was lost. No problem with that in regards to Steam.
Will it ever go belly up? I have no clue. But one thing I do know, I am not so attached to computer games that I will be crushed if I can't use the system anymore.
Hell, I wanted to play Half Life 2 a couple of weeks ago and since I bought it when it first came out it was on my Steam account so I just clicked "Install" and there I went!
After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!
