*RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: bean5671
I have been out of the loop for to long
I bought my first PC in 86/87 a 386 sx moved to a 486dx2 in 89 that was my first gaming machine That machine was how I got my first real job ironically because I had pirated Autocad and wrote a little addon for my high school drafting class, Softdesk bought it from me really they hired me but the program came with me, back than it was a sweet deal for a high school junior. Crazy how 20 years ago I did pirate a program and got hired for it but now I am not pirating but are paying the price for it[X(] I moved to Autodesk after the merger and have been in the IT/GIS industry ever since.

Funny Autodesk was/is one ofthe toughest on pirates but they have not gone to these levels and still dont and last i looked a copy of REVIT or Catia cost between 6000 and 10000 dollars a license but are very easy to install heck its just a license file

I have som architect friends who have worked with pirated autocads for ten years now with som addons. One of them sayd he payed two beers for one of his friends to copy it for him originally. Official versions are so expensive they are not even thinking of buying them.

[IanF1966]

With STEAM and other forms of DRM the consumer has no rights whatsoever and we agree to this by accepting the EULA.
If this were a loaf of bread or a service the outcry would make world news. If a software product can be deauthorized, then by law consumers should have the right to refund.

It is entirely possible for a vendor or publisher to refund a purchase by deactivating the software through the DRM. STEAM should and can make refunds. As always, the power lies with the us, the customers. Use it or lose it.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

There is a flip side of the coin. The majority of revenue goes to people who are not involved into development, but merely pay royalties to studios, don't hesitate to dumb down games for the sake of higher profits, and invent business models to eliminate intermediate trade and second hand market, while contiuously delivering less to the customer. Regarding these facts, tell me who is more detrimental for our hobby: pirates or the copyright industry?

I think that it's the gaming industry who did most damage as pirates are already factored in the business. At some point in 2000s making niche games that get sales like 100,000 or 200,000 copies (for example cRPGs like Fallout or Temple of Elemental Evil) stopped being a viable option because it wouldn't be possible to find a publisher or even retailers for them despite that these games did bring income. It's just not enough for the industry. That's why Sir-Tech died, Troika died and classical games like Fallout and X-Com get FPS "re-imaginings" done by "fans of the series".
Besides niche publishers and indies it's all about dumbing-down and pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's about ever increasing returns from investments.

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Personally, I have great loathing for people who do not want those who worked to produce a title to get paid and are willing to rip them off. But then there is this long-term dimension too. I suppose that eventually MOST games become abandonware, though some probably have far more market longevity than others.

Personally, I hate one subgroup of pirates - the "why should I pay if I can get it for free" types. It's basically as if they have some rules that forbid them to pay for software. Personally, I know only two such people, though.

Ironically, I'm more annoyed that a lot of people who I know don't wait with purchase until games are sold in less expensive editions. I know some people who are partially supported by parents, have no savings, and still are ready to spend their last money on some new game. It's so irresponsible. Not to mention that it's unpatriotic. Wasting their hard work on buying expensive digital copies (which will become worth many time less in several years) from over-privileged countries instead of building the wealth of their own family/nation.

ORIGINAL: mullk

Unfortunately the piracy and DRM  issue isn't going to go away.  A long time ago I remember speaking to a sales rep at a conference for a company who developed and distributed computer games.  He sold exactly one copy of this game in Las Vegas NV.  Everyone in town had a copy however and complained bitterly how he was ripping them off because he was charging for what they were getting from their friends for free.  He left the conference and returned to ask his company to no longer support this particular platform for development due to piracy.  I remember early in computer games of titles and companies going under because of lack of sales yet somehow everyone had a copy they got from someone else.  Everyone I knew who was pirating stated that they did it because games were too expensive.  My friends felt the correct price for a game was the cost of the disk only and any other money made was "ripping them off".

Wow. Just wow[X(]. I have never met such weird people in my whole life. I mean, how is it even possible[X(]? What is this, I don't even

ORIGINAL: mullk

Theft is a major issue everywhere. I didn't believe this until I worked retail and saw the MASSIVE amounts stolen from every store I ever worked in.

Taking in account the above, somehow I'm not surprised. Have you ever considered moving?

ORIGINAL: mullk

As for the argument that stealing software isn't stealing something is plain foolish. We buy goods and services in our daily lives and software is a service. Programs don't grow on trees, someone writes them often for money. Stealing a service is still stealing.

Software isn't a service. Writing software on order is a service. Pirates don't order software therefore they don't get the service. You're trying to name something as something that it isn't to make it look worse than it is. What's the point of it?

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: bean5671
I have been out of the loop for to long
I bought my first PC in 86/87 a 386 sx moved to a 486dx2 in 89 that was my first gaming machine That machine was how I got my first real job ironically because I had pirated Autocad and wrote a little addon for my high school drafting class, Softdesk bought it from me really they hired me but the program came with me, back than it was a sweet deal for a high school junior. Crazy how 20 years ago I did pirate a program and got hired for it but now I am not pirating but are paying the price for it[X(] I moved to Autodesk after the merger and have been in the IT/GIS industry ever since.

Funny Autodesk was/is one ofthe toughest on pirates but they have not gone to these levels and still dont and last i looked a copy of REVIT or Catia cost between 6000 and 10000 dollars a license but are very easy to install heck its just a license file

I have som architect friends who have worked with pirated autocads for ten years now with som addons. One of them sayd he payed two beers for one of his friends to copy it for him originally. Official versions are so expensive they are not even thinking of buying them.

The price of Autocad is insane. My mother's company hired a person to draft by hand for years after we got a computer because we weren't able to afford Autocad or even any alternative. Finally, when 4 years ago my mother had to replace drafting by hand because customers wouldn't accept plans that weren't done on computer, I have searched for a reasonable alternative and I have found QCad which costed me 24 Euro. I use it to this day.

I think that people who get really hurt by the "I can't afford it so I'll pirate" thing is the companies that produce less expensive alternatives and developers of free alternatives that simply get marginalized. Personally, I use Linux instead of Windows (too expensive and less user friendly than it used to be), Open Office instead Office (again, too expensive) and QCad instead of Autocad (insanely expensive).

[Scott_WAR]

Its amazing how cluless about law some people are,....especially consumer laws. Almost EVERY single civilized nations has consumer proctection laws that mean these EULA's are worthless. You can not sign away certain rights,....and in fact there is no signature on a EULA, thereofore IT IS NOT A BINDING AGREEMENT.


This is exactly the same as the signs on the back of a coal hauling or gravel hauling trucks which reads "Driver not responsible for damage caused by debris falling from vehicle." In reality the driver (or owner) of the truck is 100% liable for any damage anything that falls out of their truck does. BUT the sign is believed by many idiots who wont even try to get their windshield fixed if something flies out of the truck and cracks it.......becasue the sign says so. A sign cannot override the law........just as a EULA cant overide the many consumer protection laws...............but a lot of people believe the EULA is as biniding as the law,....it isnt,....its just a tool to try and convice people that they dont actually have any rights,.....so they wont stand up for them.

[IanF1966]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Its amazing how cluless about law some people are,....especially consumer laws. Almost EVERY single civilized nations has consumer proctection laws that mean these EULA's are worthless. You can not sign away certain rights,....and in fact there is no signature on a EULA, thereofore IT IS NOT A BINDING AGREEMENT.

"I saw in another topic a couple people arguing about whether an EULA was a legally binding contract. My brother in law is a lawyer and I just asked him about whether an EULA is a legally binding contract. He said that if it states specifically in the EULA that by clicking the accept button, you agree to everything in the contract, then yes, it is in fact legally binding. It WILL hold up in court too if there was ever a need for it. An EULA is no different than a contract a movie star agrees to when they are hired to shoot a movie. Just because you don't physically sign something, it is still legally binding. However if you are not forced to look at and click accept on the EULA before using a product, then it is not legally binding. Here is something I found while doing some digging after I talked to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_l ... p_licenses

I point you to this paragraph in particular, under the section "Shrink Wrap and Click Wrap Licenses":

Further, in ProCD v. Zeidenberg, the license was ruled enforceable because it was necessary for the customer to assent to the terms of the agreement by clicking on an "I Agree" button in order to install the software. In Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., however, the licencee was able to download and install the software without first being required to review and positively assent to the terms of the agreement, and so the license was held to be unenforceable.

Because Zeidenberg had no choice but to click Accept on the EULA before using the product, then it is a valid legal contract. However Specht was able to use the software without first agreeing to the EULA, and thus the EULA is not legally binding. I also found out that if a minor child clicks Accept on an EULA and then does something to violate the terms, the parent or legal guardian then takes full responsibilty. Anyway just wanted to clear that up."

Source:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/988968-/58415129

[Scott_WAR]

Ask your brother in law lawyer about invalidating a contract. He will inform you that one single item in a contract that is not legal invalidates the entire contract. All EULA's contain the statement that the company that made the software is not responsible if that software damages your PC. THAT is illegal,....that is a right you can not sign away. That invalidates the EULA. So yes,....while a lot of whats in the EULA is valid,....and while clicking on the EULA is a valid way of entering a contract,...whats IN the EULA invalidates it. Thats how consumer law makes a EULA worthelss. You can not have a person sign away their right to sue tyou for negligence. Even if they sign a contract stating just that,...the contract is worthless.


Now I must ask you,......if it is shown that it is possible to use software through cracking where you dont have to click on the EULA,....exactly how is a company going to prove that I didnt do just that,...and therefore never clicked on their EULA,...therefore it isnt binding. AllI have to do is state that I never clicked on it,....prove I did. If I say I did not, then proof that I did must be shown.

SO by your own post it shows that EULA's can be circumvented legally. Not the way I am showing, but still a valid method. Useless is useless no matter why.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Ask your brother in law lawyer about invalidating a contract. He will inform you that one single item in a contract that is not legal invalidates the entire contract. All EULA's contain the statement that the company that made the software is not responsible if that software damages your PC. THAT is illegal,....that is a right you can not sign away. That invalidates the EULA. So yes,....while a lot of whats in the EULA is valid,....and while clicking on the EULA is a valid way of entering a contract,...whats IN the EULA invalidates it. Thats how consumer law makes a EULA worthelss. You can not have a person sign away their right to sue tyou for negligence. Even if they sign a contract stating just that,...the contract is worthless.

EULAs usually state that these limited warranty paragraphs don't apply to states/countries where one can't sign away his customer rights.

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

EULAs usually state that these limited warranty paragraphs don't apply to states/countries where one can't sign away his customer rights.

And that is the same as the sign on the truck. The contract is a whole document,. you cant pick and choose which parts of it to enforce. If it part of it is illegal in a certain state or country,...then the entire EULA is invalid in that state or country. BUT wait a minute. Let me add something here. I am basing this off of a lawsuit I went through over 20 years ago. A contract dispute. Sadly,....its possible,...and the way things have been going, likley,.... that the laws have changed in that time. I know most laws passed in that time concerning consumer proctection have only weakened the conumers rights and made it easier for corporations to screw over the consumer and get away with it.,.......so it would not surprise me if the laws have changed and I am wrong,....as I said a good bit of time has passed.



And lets also not forget,...at least in the US,........judges cant even agree on what some laws mean,...so its possible that another judge would give a far different ruling.

There are so many different ways a EULA can be legally attacked who knows which ones are valid and would work, and which ones wont.



What it REALLY comes down to is a EULA cant overide the law. The law will protect most poeple from getting screwed over.

To the guy who initially started this thread- you bought the software knowing it needed steam to work. If you didnt know it needed steam thats your fault for not reading the required system specs for the game. By modifying the software without permission, you did violate the terms of the EULA,...terms a court will hold up. You dont own the software,...just as you dont own a leased car. You cant modify the software, just as you cant modify a leased car.

BUT since you are doing no harm to the company, and are not costing the company any sales, they wont bother with you aside from the bannings on the forums. Which can be easily fixed by creating another account. So you have the games and can play them. You can still get on the forums if you really want...................I dont see a problem.

[bean5671]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

EULAs usually state that these limited warranty paragraphs don't apply to states/countries where one can't sign away his customer rights.

And that is the same as the sign on the truck. The contract is a whole document,. you cant pick and choose which parts of it to enforce. If it part of it is illegal in a certain state or country,...then the entire EULA is invalid in that state or country. BUT wait a minute. Let me add something here. I am basing this off of a lawsuit I went through over 20 years ago. A contract dispute. Sadly,....its possible,...and the way things have been going, likley,.... that the laws have changed in that time. I know most laws passed in that time concerning consumer proctection have only weakened the conumers rights and made it easier for corporations to screw over the consumer and get away with it.,.......so it would not surprise me if the laws have changed and I am wrong,....as I said a good bit of time has passed.



And lets also not forget,...at least in the US,........judges cant even agree on what some laws mean,...so its possible that another judge would give a far different ruling.

There are so many different ways a EULA can be legally attacked who knows which ones are valid and would work, and which ones wont.



What it REALLY comes down to is a EULA cant overide the law. The law will protect most poeple from getting screwed over.

To the guy who initially started this thread- you bought the software knowing it needed steam to work. If you didnt know it needed steam thats your fault for not reading the required system specs for the game. By modifying the software without permission, you did violate the terms of the EULA,...terms a court will hold up. You dont own the software,...just as you dont own a leased car. You cant modify the software, just as you cant modify a leased car.

BUT since you are doing no harm to the company, and are not costing the company any sales, they wont bother with you aside from the bannings on the forums. Which can be easily fixed by creating another account. So you have the games and can play them. You can still get on the forums if you really want...................I dont see a problem.

Scott

I did not buy it my 15 year old son did at a retail store he did not know steam would not work
I tried to return it they would not take it back or refund my money it was not my fault
so your saying I can not make it work, they will not take it back, so,what do I do? I do not want to break the law but I want the game to work or my money back and I can modify anything that is on my PC period dont like it sue me or dont sell it to me
how about this I write my own EULA for any thing that installs on my pc that gives me the right to modify anything on a machine I own just by installing on my machine you give me the right to modify LOL I hand this doc to every retail sales clerk that rings me out funny idea I might try it

[pmelheck1]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: Lützow

There is a flip side of the coin. The majority of revenue goes to people who are not involved into development, but merely pay royalties to studios, don't hesitate to dumb down games for the sake of higher profits, and invent business models to eliminate intermediate trade and second hand market, while contiuously delivering less to the customer. Regarding these facts, tell me who is more detrimental for our hobby: pirates or the copyright industry?

I think that it's the gaming industry who did most damage as pirates are already factored in the business. At some point in 2000s making niche games that get sales like 100,000 or 200,000 copies (for example cRPGs like Fallout or Temple of Elemental Evil) stopped being a viable option because it wouldn't be possible to find a publisher or even retailers for them despite that these games did bring income. It's just not enough for the industry. That's why Sir-Tech died, Troika died and classical games like Fallout and X-Com get FPS "re-imaginings" done by "fans of the series".
Besides niche publishers and indies it's all about dumbing-down and pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's about ever increasing returns from investments.

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Personally, I have great loathing for people who do not want those who worked to produce a title to get paid and are willing to rip them off. But then there is this long-term dimension too. I suppose that eventually MOST games become abandonware, though some probably have far more market longevity than others.

Personally, I hate one subgroup of pirates - the "why should I pay if I can get it for free" types. It's basically as if they have some rules that forbid them to pay for software. Personally, I know only two such people, though.

Ironically, I'm more annoyed that a lot of people who I know don't wait with purchase until games are sold in less expensive editions. I know some people who are partially supported by parents, have no savings, and still are ready to spend their last money on some new game. It's so irresponsible. Not to mention that it's unpatriotic. Wasting their hard work on buying expensive digital copies (which will become worth many time less in several years) from over-privileged countries instead of building the wealth of their own family/nation.

ORIGINAL: mullk

Unfortunately the piracy and DRM  issue isn't going to go away.  A long time ago I remember speaking to a sales rep at a conference for a company who developed and distributed computer games.  He sold exactly one copy of this game in Las Vegas NV.  Everyone in town had a copy however and complained bitterly how he was ripping them off because he was charging for what they were getting from their friends for free.  He left the conference and returned to ask his company to no longer support this particular platform for development due to piracy.  I remember early in computer games of titles and companies going under because of lack of sales yet somehow everyone had a copy they got from someone else.  Everyone I knew who was pirating stated that they did it because games were too expensive.  My friends felt the correct price for a game was the cost of the disk only and any other money made was "ripping them off".

Wow. Just wow[X(]. I have never met such weird people in my whole life. I mean, how is it even possible[X(]? What is this, I don't even

People swapping software happens all the time your not aware of this??? Back in the early days of home computers clubs were set up that made an industry of software piracy.

ORIGINAL: mullk

Theft is a major issue everywhere. I didn't believe this until I worked retail and saw the MASSIVE amounts stolen from every store I ever worked in.

Taking in account the above, somehow I'm not surprised. Have you ever considered moving?

I have been around the world and theft is a major issue everywhere. While I'm not a major fan of Wal-Mart it reports thefts of billions of dollars every year. Most theft is employees unfortunately. Some of my coworkers in the past felt they were under paid and felt theft was OK as they felt they were entitled to steal as they were underpaid. I think this view is vile but it is the feeling of some folks out their.

ORIGINAL: mullk

As for the argument that stealing software isn't stealing something is plain foolish. We buy goods and services in our daily lives and software is a service. Programs don't grow on trees, someone writes them often for money. Stealing a service is still stealing.

Software isn't a service. Writing software on order is a service. Pirates don't order software therefore they don't get the service. You're trying to name something as something that it isn't to make it look worse than it is. What's the point of it?

The service to me is the writing of the software. Again software doesn't grow on trees so someone had to write it. Just because you didn't order the service doesn't mean it's not a service. The service is worked in advance and people pay for the service when they use the fruits of that service. When you buy the software you provide money to the programming team, publisher, shippers, warehouse and retail employees who are trying to earn a living.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: bean5671
I have been out of the loop for to long
I bought my first PC in 86/87 a 386 sx moved to a 486dx2 in 89 that was my first gaming machine That machine was how I got my first real job ironically because I had pirated Autocad and wrote a little addon for my high school drafting class, Softdesk bought it from me really they hired me but the program came with me, back than it was a sweet deal for a high school junior. Crazy how 20 years ago I did pirate a program and got hired for it but now I am not pirating but are paying the price for it[X(] I moved to Autodesk after the merger and have been in the IT/GIS industry ever since.

Funny Autodesk was/is one ofthe toughest on pirates but they have not gone to these levels and still dont and last i looked a copy of REVIT or Catia cost between 6000 and 10000 dollars a license but are very easy to install heck its just a license file

I have som architect friends who have worked with pirated autocads for ten years now with som addons. One of them sayd he payed two beers for one of his friends to copy it for him originally. Official versions are so expensive they are not even thinking of buying them.

The price of Autocad is insane. My mother's company hired a person to draft by hand for years after we got a computer because we weren't able to afford Autocad or even any alternative. Finally, when 4 years ago my mother had to replace drafting by hand because customers wouldn't accept plans that weren't done on computer, I have searched for a reasonable alternative and I have found QCad which costed me 24 Euro. I use it to this day.

I think that people who get really hurt by the "I can't afford it so I'll pirate" thing is the companies that produce less expensive alternatives and developers of free alternatives that simply get marginalized. Personally, I use Linux instead of Windows (too expensive and less user friendly than it used to be), Open Office instead Office (again, too expensive) and QCad instead of Autocad (insanely expensive).

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: mullk

People swapping software happens all the time your not aware of this??? Back in the early days of home computers clubs were set up that made an industry of software piracy.

It was a reply to the bold part. The part about people thinking that they get ripped off if games aren't free. I find it very... exotic.

ORIGINAL: mullk

I have been around the world and theft is a major issue everywhere. While I'm not a major fan of Wal-Mart it reports thefts of billions of dollars every year. Most theft is employees unfortunately. Some of my coworkers in the past felt they were under paid and felt theft was OK as they felt they were entitled to steal as they were underpaid. I think this view is vile but it is the feeling of some folks out their.

I they felt underpaid why didn't they go on a strike?

ORIGINAL: mullk

The service to me is the writing of the software. Again software doesn't grow on trees so someone had to write it. Just because you didn't order the service doesn't mean it's not a service. The service is worked in advance and people pay for the service when they use the fruits of that service. When you buy the software you provide money to the programming team, publisher, shippers, warehouse and retail employees who are trying to earn a living.

The amount of service done isn't increased by someone playing a pirated version of the game, so it's still morally irrelevant unless additional circumstances occur (like the "you're ripping us off because it's not free" stance or "why should I pay for anything if it's available for free" stance).
You could as well claim that writing a book is a service and anyone that uses libraries (doesn't pay for that service) is stealing.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

EULA's do not mean a company is evil or trying to screw you. They have to be written in order to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Which is to protect the company and it's employees from litigation.

In the past, sure. Nowadays some companies are using it to rewrite their own version of customer ownership laws.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

EULA's do not mean a company is evil or trying to screw you. They have to be written in order to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Which is to protect the company and it's employees from litigation.

In the past, sure. Nowadays some companies are using it to rewrite their own version of customer ownership laws.

Yes the thing is that they can now literally pull the plug on the software and that part of EULA is

As for the protection from litigation - it's not always a good thing. There were at least two games who had uninstallers that wiped out the users hard drive (one was Blood & Magic demo. It removed partition from my hard drive. Twice. Another was Pool of Radiance 2). Then there were optical disk drives damaged by Starforce (IIRC one of the forum users suffered from it).

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Then there were optical disk drives damaged by Starforce (IIRC one of the forum users suffered from it).

I did, for one.

Still have that DVD-RW drive stashed away somewhere. A slow, premature death. I've never seen a drive behave like that until after installing Starforce's top secret ninja drivers. Crazy.

I've also had a few other DRM related issues over the years, so I tend to be pretty vocal about the subject.

[Anthropoid]

My understanding is that a EULA is a legally binding contract. I suppose that doesn't mean that any grievance would automatically be tossed out if it was in contradiction to the EULA. But it might mean that a particular judge would tend to find in favor of the EULA writer and not the user. There is no way to know how that might turn out until a grievance actually wound up in court. One possibility would be that the user(s) lodiging the grievance might get nothing or even have to pay the attorney fees/court costs, as the Steam EULA seems to be suggesting. Another possibility is that a judge would find that that was in breach of fundamental consumer rights and it wouldn't be decided that way.

[ilovestrategy]

Reading this makes me happy that I've been reading PC Gamer for the last 20 years. Their game reviews have not lead me wrong, especially with DRMs. Actually, it's from them I learned about Starforce. I feel sorry for StarDock, they are always getting confused with StarForce.

This thread is getting long, it's getting about that time for a spam bot to copy and paste a random post from here.......[:D]

[E]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
You could as well claim that writing a book is a service and anyone that uses libraries (doesn't pay for that service) is stealing.

Bad analogy. Libraries aren't free (They are paid for by taxes).

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: JosEPh_II


Very interesting debate and situation. And it emphasizes exactly why I, personally, will Never get a steam acct no matter how good the game is.

I will never play Civ V, even though I have hard copies of II, III, and IV, plus the expansions. They killed the series for me.

God Bless the indie developers and Long may they Live!

JosEPh

I agree.

(I even have 2 copies of Civ III because the CD became damaged.)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

This thread is getting long, it's getting about that time for a spam bot to copy and paste a random post from here.......[:D]

Okay then - random post: Name that song from which the lyrics below come from?

What are those dogs doing sniffing at my feet
They're on to something, picking up
Picking up this heat, this heat

Give me *****
And how you feel to make it real
Real as anything you've seen
Get a life with this dreamer's dream

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

This thread is getting long, it's getting about that time for a spam bot to copy and paste a random post from here.......[:D]

Okay then - random post: Name that song from which the lyrics below come from?

What are those dogs doing sniffing at my feet
They're on to something, picking up
Picking up this heat, this heat

Give me *****
And how you feel to make it real
Real as anything you've seen
Get a life with this dreamer's dream

You got me on that one! [X(]