White Russians

[Canoerebel]

I am curious about the fate of the Russian opposition to communism back in the 'teens and 20s and whether it survived in any meaningful way into the modern era.

I know that anti-communist forces were pretty well-organized into the early '20s, were brutally repressed, and that strong enclaves of "White Russians" ended up in exhile in places like Paris, Harbin, and Shanghai. But were these groups able to remain organized and did they influence events in Russia into the late '80s and '90s as the reform movement took place? Or had they died away by then, so that the reform movement came from within Russia?

Just curious.

[Jeffrey H.]

.. The Dude loved them....

[Canoerebel]

I have no idea what that means.

[Keunert]

lol... Big Lebowsky's Dude constantly drinks white russians. i like them too.

[NefariousKoel]

"had a rough night, and I hate the f***ing Eagles, man "

[Oleg Mastruko]

White Russian is the name of cocktail. Guy from the movie Big Lebovsky loves them, and I love them too. Great name, great taste - and the name in cocktail is almost as important as taste [:D]

Anyway, to answer your question: no, they didn't influence events from the 90s. They remained organised pretty well thru the 30s and 40s. Black Baron Wrangel died in Serbia, Denikin llived in France etc, but the events of the WW2 thoroughly overshadowed anything that happened before 41 and I don't think anyone after 45 spent much thinking about "white" alternatives to what was in many aspects most powerful world empire, certainly one that proved it's worth in biggest test of them all: German invasion.

Of course, by 1990 they were all dead. I don't think their offspring, living in France, USA, Paraguay, Serbia or wherever, in fact being born there as more or less regular citizens, had any interest to influence Russian politics, thoroughly influenced by local Russian powermongers and oligarchs.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks, Oleg, for that information.

[Knavery]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

.. The Dude loved them....

This being my favorite movie of all time, I got your reference. Hehe... And White Russians are delicious.

[andym]

There was a board wargame madei think by SPI about the red v white struggle.Its a brilliant game to play with mates as you dont know what side other players are on till its too late.I cant remember the name of it but its in the Loft.

Got it!Funnily enough it was called............................Russian Civil War 1918-1922.


http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2665 ... st-edition

[Oleg Mastruko]

Well there is a game about Red and White struggle in the current Matrix offering. Seems very interesting too, but with WITE out I haven't had time to properly check it out.

RUS - Revolution under Siege. Civil wars are very interesting historic and wargaming topic, and Russian civil war particulary stands out as probably the most influential civil war ever.

[medanum6298]

I'm new in here, Hope to enjoy this forum.


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[Bamilus]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I am curious about the fate of the Russian opposition to communism back in the 'teens and 20s and whether it survived in any meaningful way into the modern era.

I know that anti-communist forces were pretty well-organized into the early '20s, were brutally repressed, and that strong enclaves of "White Russians" ended up in exhile in places like Paris, Harbin, and Shanghai. But were these groups able to remain organized and did they influence events in Russia into the late '80s and '90s as the reform movement took place? Or had they died away by then, so that the reform movement came from within Russia?

Just curious.

Don't quote me on anything but I've also been interested in this, too. There were some emigre movements during WW2 that worked with the Nazi's (or tried to) but Hitler prevented them from volunteering for several reasons:

A) They would be a huge political liability because of their past and also because of their true motives (restoration of Russia which would have been opposite of Nazi goals)
B) They were starting to get old and didn't have much modern training and therefore wouldn't have made a very spectacular combat unit.

I think a good amount of White Russians eventually emigrated to the US (New York has a good population of them).

But, in terms of having any influence the White Russians died out after the 20's. A large part of the reason they stopped being influential was because they weren't really united in the first place (just random generals and leaders revolting with no real coherence or united goals for what a restored Russia would look like) and also, as you said, they emigrated to hundreds of different places after the Civil War.

[Canoerebel]

I find it fascinating. I figured that after 60 years, the White Russian movement would have long-since died away, but I thought there was a chance they had remained organized enough that children or grandchildren had enough interest in Russian affairs in the late 1980s or '90s. Sounds like that is definately not the case.

After the American Civil War, a "colony" of ardent southerners settled a community in Brazil. Although that community still honors it's origin, it is definately Brazilian rather than American. Offspring are simply going to adapt to their homelands, not the "ancient history" of their ancestor's homelands.

It doesn't sound like the White Russians were even organized enough to take part in the major Vlasov movement of World War II. Anti-communists largely comprised that movement, but not the old White Russians.

"Lost causes" are fascinating, and for some reason I find the story of the White Russians particularly compelling and sad. For generations, their country really experienced some dark times.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have no idea what that means.

Sorry for the non-sequitor but you really should see "The Big Lebowski"

[Josh]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


Sorry for the non-sequitor but you really should see "The Big Lebowski"

That's a definite +1
(I also might add the "Fisher King", a movie by Terry Gilliam, also starring Jeff Bridges.)

[carnifex]

I watched that movie twice now just to make sure I wasn't missing out on something epic. Not that it sucked, but it was just not very memorable. I don't remember anything but the ashes in the face scene and I wasn't even high. People seem to love that movie though for some reason. And I love and appreciate humor, but for some reason I just want to punch that annoying Dude guy right in the face.

[Canoerebel]

Never mind.