Realistic RTS?

[Obsolete]

And RTS games like Men of War and Theatre of War are a lot more 'realistic' than, say, Company of Heroes.

Oh come on now... Kings being half the price of Tigers, and Fire-flies out-ranging the both of them, etc. How can that NOT BE REALISTIC!?

[Hertston]

I'm still totally baffled as to what to what Perturabo is actually after, if all those mentioned so far are not RTS games but 'real time tactics games' or 'real time simulations'. [&:]

OK, I certainly wouldn't dispute they have little in common with the likes of Supreme Commander and Starcraft and wouldn't apply the 'RTS' label to most of them myself (I would, though, to Men at War and Theatre of War).. but if those games aren't 'realistic Real Time Strategy' then what the heck is? You can't possibly include any of the base-building and resource gathering staff with introducing an instant lack of anything approaching 'realism'. What criteria would someone trying to create such a game need to apply?

[mjk428]

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

[martok]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

Only if the UI is improved. The original Rebellion was fun in concept, but the interface made navigating the game a nightmare.

[AlesMrak]

Perturabo,

try this game, http://www.stragames.com/gc/

br.
Dr.Jones

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: martok

ORIGINAL: mjk428

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

Only if the UI is improved. The original Rebellion was fun in concept, but the interface made navigating the game a nightmare.

That is in my top five most disappointing games ever. A tedious nightmare of a game.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

I'm still totally baffled as to what to what Perturabo is actually after, if all those mentioned so far are not RTS games but 'real time tactics games' or 'real time simulations'. [&:]

OK, I certainly wouldn't dispute they have little in common with the likes of Supreme Commander and Starcraft and wouldn't apply the 'RTS' label to most of them myself (I would, though, to Men at War and Theatre of War).. but if those games aren't 'realistic Real Time Strategy' then what the heck is?

They aren't strategic games. "Strategy" in RTS isn't "strategy" like in "any wargame" but
"strategy" as in "strategic wargame" (as opposed to skirmish, tactical and operational).

The main difference is that both skirmish and tactical games tend to be action games. They are about making fast decisions and quick exploitation of enemy weakness. They are fast and brutal.

On the other hand in RTS it's the strategy what counts. You need to think long term - you need to manage resources in a way that allows you to create a massive army that will destroy the enemy. If you start with a very few units, you can use a rush strategy - choose a path of development that will allow you to quickly build a mass of cheap units and prevent the enemy from development and preferably destroy him. If you have a longer term strategy, you need to create proper defences to prevent the opponent from succeeding with a rush strategy and then amass higher quality units to destroy the enemy.

ORIGINAL: Hertston

You can't possibly include any of the base-building and resource gathering staff with introducing an instant lack of anything approaching 'realism'.

From what I've read WitP has resource "gathering", production and "base-building".

ORIGINAL: Dr.Jones

Perturabo,

try this game, http://www.stragames.com/gc/

br.
Dr.Jones

Real Time Operations?

Anyway, something like this but on strategic level.

Damn, that game has the most depressing wargame trailer that I've ever seen[:(].

ORIGINAL: sulla05

There were two games called Road to Moscow. The one I'm referring to never made it to store shelves.

I still have and play fire-Brigade and it is just a straight wargame. SSGs games were closer to command control that I like in wargames but sadly I was told by one of them that they would never make a game like those again.

Which SSGs games? I have Battles in Normandy and Battles in Italy and they seem to be pretty conventional.

ORIGINAL: mjk428

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

Is it something similar to Supremacy?

[sullafelix]

I was talking about the games SSG made in the 80's and possibly early 90's.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I was talking about the games SSG made in the 80's and possibly early 90's.

Sounds interesting. Any titles worth checking out?

[sullafelix]

I found this posted on SSG's Run Five forum it's from 2005 so I don't know if the links on the page are any good.

http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1684

But these are operational games where you can be the general and send out your orders. I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I was talking about the games SSG made in the 80's and possibly early 90's.

When you mentioned SSG and the 80s I came to think on SSI and U.S.A.A.F made by Gary Grigsby. A game I would like to have a remake of. Or even begin to play the original one again.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I found this posted on SSG's Run Five forum it's from 2005 so I don't know if the links on the page are any good.

http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1684

But these are operational games where you can be the general and send out your orders. I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for.

How does command & control work in them?

[sullafelix]

It works like the modern HPS titles when you play them with the command option.

However I believe that the AI in a lot of the Commodore 64 games was very good. Pretty astonishing what they could do with what they had to work with.

Of course the amount of memory spent on graphics was minimal.

[Perturabo]

I haven't played any HPS games.

[martok]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

That is in my top five most disappointing games ever. A tedious nightmare of a game.

Personally, I didn't find Rebellion to be *that* bad, but I can certainly understand why you (or someone else) might. The game had some great concepts, but the execution was....flawed.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: mjk428

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

Is it something similar to Supremacy?

Star Wars Rebellion and Star Wars Supremacy are the same game. It's just that for whatever reason, it was labeled with the former title when it was being sold in the U.S.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: martok

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: mjk428

My first answer would have been Harpoon but since that doesn't count....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebellion

I'd love to see Rebellion II. The emphasis was on strategy and not real-time.

Is it something similar to Supremacy?

Star Wars Rebellion and Star Wars Supremacy are the same game. It's just that for whatever reason, it was labeled with the former title when it was being sold in the U.S.

I meant Supremacy.

[martok]

Oops, sorry.


Heh. I actually remember that game, as my best friend in high school had it on his computer back in the day. While I never played it much, it did serve to whet my appetite for space strategy games later on.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I found this posted on SSG's Run Five forum it's from 2005 so I don't know if the links on the page are any good.

http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1684

But these are operational games where you can be the general and send out your orders. I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for.

Thanks for the info. I bought Halls of Montezuma, it looks pretty impressive - it has a colour map and some other cards and a pretty thick manual. The beginning of the manual mentions lack of direct control of low level units, so it may be what I'm looking for when it comes to command & control.