Singapore 50% port damage 7 Dec why?

[asdicus]

For all scenarios I note that Singapore starts with 50% port damage on 7 december 1941. This takes 5 days to repair and makes a big difference to loading/unloading ships. Also of course you cannot build any forts at singapore for 5 days either while the port is repaired.

I cannot see any historical reason for the major port damage at the start of the game. The port was undamaged and working fine. Can any of the developers please explain why the port damage was added ? I would like to remove it in a custom babes scenario but I need to justify the change to my opponent.

[spence]

Singapore was bombed by the aircraft which, in AEs present incarnation, sink the
Prince of Wales and Repulse (9 out of 10 times). I'm sure those superbombers could have done both if they'd been commanded by a suitably brilliant JFB.

[Herrbear]

I don't know either, but I think it is because they wanted to simulate the damage done to the port by the Allied forces before the fall of Singapore. In the game this cannot be done, unlike oil or resources which do get damaged when captured.

[spence]

I don't know either, but I think it is because they wanted to simulate the damage done to the port by the Allied forces before the fall of Singapore. In the game this cannot be done, unlike oil or resources which do get damaged when captured.

The game mechanics dictate that the damage will be repaired as soon as possible and according to the initial poster that takes 5 days. Perhaps I've been uncommonly adept at defending Malaya but losing Singapore after less than 5 days seems unlikely to me.

Frankly I just think that the DEVs didn't consider what wouldn't have been done if those Nells/Bettys had spent the first day on standby waiting for a sighting report instead of dropping bombs on a surprised and brilliantly lit up Singapore.

[asdicus]

If the port damage is supposed to relate to the japanese night bombing raid dec 7/8 on singapore then the port damage of 50% is widely overstated.

According to Shores Bloody Shambles vol 1 the night bombing raid on dec 7/8(same night as the landings at kota bharu)
was made by land based nell bombers. There were 2 waves - the first wave of 34 nell all turned back due to bad weather and so did 14 out of 31 nell in the second wave. Thus 17 nell's actually made the attack - most bombs hit non military targets(eg chinatown) although 3 blenheim's were damaged.

50% port damage is a lot - the actual military damage was insignificant. 5 days of repair work makes a big difference to the allies at singapore especially if the japs do something different eg land at mersing in force.

[mike scholl 1]

Why not just be honest?  It's another sop to the JFB crowd.

[CaptBeefheart]

Could it be a simulation of confusion? Perhaps it took a while to get everything ship shape after the officers had to put down their Singapore Slings at the Long Bar, wot?

Cheers,
CC

[Alpha77]

I haven´t even noticed that, as there was so much chaos overall in 12/41 [:D]

[asdicus]

I don't want to get into a JFB or AFB argument.

I bought the game on release, like it very much and appreciate all the work done by the developers and support staff. The babes scenario is great but I am tweaking it a bit for my own interpretation of historical game start conditions. The singapore port damage looked like an anomaly to me so I am seeking reasons for this from the scenario developers. I can then justify(or not) changing things to my pbm game opponent.

[JWE]

Originally done to represent the differential between shipyard potential for the Allies and the Japanese, given the 50% data reduction upon capture. Was implemented very early in the game system development, and simply wasn't updated through all the subsequent changes. Might have done it differently, if I knew how things would evolve.

Only takes 5 days to fix it, so ... deal with it.

[Rainer]

Why not just be honest?

Good idea.
Give it a try ...[8|]

[Nomad]

I always felt that it was either supposed to be that way or an unimportant data base error. I have never worried about it. 5 days / 1600 days in a game = .3125% of the game. Whooppppppeeeeeeeee I really feel so cheated. [:)]

[Sredni]

Well, this could be one of the reasons that singapore usually falls sooner then historical in most games. A minor contributor.

The fact that nobody sends the 18th to die there probably has a much bigger impact on this. Though thinking about it in AE I dunno if the 18th could get to singapore. By the time the convoy could reach singapore there's enough air power over singapore to sink any convoy.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Why not just be honest?

Good idea.
Give it a try ...[8|]

Always have..., how many other posters on this forum use their real names? [8D]

[Rainer]

Why not just be honest? It's another sop to the JFB crowd.

Accusing the developers with an unfair argument (or no argument at all) is unfair and dishonest.
No matter what name or disguise you use.

If you tried to be sarcastic I missed it ...

[erstad]

Always have..., how many other posters on this forum use their real names?

Me! Me!

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Sredni

Well, this could be one of the reasons that singapore usually falls sooner then historical in most games. A minor contributor.

The fact that nobody sends the 18th to die there probably has a much bigger impact on this. Though thinking about it in AE I dunno if the 18th could get to singapore. By the time the convoy could reach singapore there's enough air power over singapore to sink any convoy.

English: SS EMPRESS OF ASIA beached and burning. Most of the troops on board were rescued, but nearly all their weapons and equipment were lost. EMPRESS OF ASIA was the only vessel of the convoy reinforcing Malaya to be lost under the air attack. The vessel on the right is SS FELIX ROUSELL. The convoy comprised four vessels bringing the remainder of the 18th British Division to Singapore, and was the last convoy to reach the island before it fell.

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: erstad

Always have..., how many other posters on this forum use their real names?

Me! Me!

Me too! [:D]

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: erstad

Always have..., how many other posters on this forum use their real names?

Me! Me!

Me too! [:D]

"Icedawg" and "Erstad"? Your parents by any chance related to the lady who named her twins "Orangejello" and "Lemonjello"? [:D]

[Cyber Me]

ORIGINAL: asdicus

For all scenarios I note that Singapore starts with 50% port damage on 7 december 1941. This takes 5 days to repair and makes a big difference to loading/unloading ships. Also of course you cannot build any forts at singapore for 5 days either while the port is repaired.

I cannot see any historical reason for the major port damage at the start of the game. The port was undamaged and working fine. Can any of the developers please explain why the port damage was added ? I would like to remove it in a custom babes scenario but I need to justify the change to my opponent.

It was Percival's order not to fortify the northern shores of Singapore up to 27th Dec 1941 because he didn't want to panic the civilians and wounded retreating troops- even though 6500 engineers could have been adding to the defences. Even when the Commonwealth forces crossed onto the island virtually nothing was done- the the little progress was made in the wrong positions as Percival mis-judged were the Japanese were going to invade- "There were no permanent defences on the front about to be attacked," Churchill said. By the time the Australians reached their front on 1st Feb 1942 they had to prepare their defences from scratch and only at night as the bank was now subjected to near constant bombing, strafing, and shelling during the day.