Leon Degrelle

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

Whenever you get me close to move away from my assumption that you are a nazi fan you instantly throw something in my direction that chokes it off again. Why this fascination for the SS outfit Leibstandarte? Why Grossdeutschland which murdered at least 150 captured black african-french soldiers of the Tirailleurs sénégalais during the conquest of france?

To some degree I can understand fascination for army outfits and their exploits during times of war, but why this obsession with SS? If you stare into the Abyss too long, it starts staring back...

The Grossdeutschland wasn't SS.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Panama

Firing bombing population centers without military signifigance is, of course, ok since the Allies won. So that's not any kind of war crime nor inhumane right? I mean, they were Japanese and German civilians right? Not like it was a death camp or anything.

I've met a lot of people who consider people who play wargamers as some kind of sick twisted person because they make light of the mass murder that took place. Wargamers make play of the fact that people suffered horribly and died in these conflicts. You can't single out one side and say they were evil and another side and say they were saints. People on both sides commited genocide. It's fact. Those who deny this are the ones you have to worry about.

There we agree (defining war crimes after a war is mostly tarnished by double standards). The difference in judging participants is most of the time only who won. Bombing dresden when the war was already won for the allies was a clear war crime in my book. Vae victis. Victor's justice. But this opens a new can of worms, now we'll have the strategic bombing fans jumping all over us.

As for wargaming: Playing WitE I have to swallow hard to play either side, because I'm aware of many atrocities commited by both sides. If I couldn't consider it as a form of chess, purely dealing with military decisions and dilemmas, I couldn't have bought it. And I'm convinced 99% of WitE players and forumites feel this way.


Edit: added () on where we agree.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
The Grossdeutschland wasn't SS.

Just another unit which committed war crimes.

[Steelers708]

This will be my last post on this subject as I'm not going to play Reconvets' game.

I have books on the German Army, Soviet Army, Chinese army, British army, US army and the Cofederate States Army, so I admit it I'm a neo nazi communist democrat who would love to own a slave, which reminds me I must give my Filipino made her daily ration of 20 lashes.

Of course the authors and publishers of the books I own are also neo nazi communist democratic slave lovers for dearing to write about and publish such heinous books, no doubt I will meet them all in hell, but that reminds me I'm an atheist, so actually I'm a

Neo Nazi Communist Democrat Slave loving Atheist

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Steelers708

This will be my last post on this subject as I'm not going to play Reconvets' game.

I have books on the German Army, Soviet Army, Chinese army, British army, US army and the Cofederate States Army, so I admit it I'm a neo nazi communist democrat who would love to own a slave, which reminds me I must give my Filipino made her daily ration of 20 lashes.

Of course the authors and publishers of the books I own are also neo nazi communist democratic slave lovers for dearing to write about and publish such heinous books, no doubt I will meet them all in hell, but that reminds me I'm an atheist, so actually I'm a

Neo Nazi Communist Democrat Slave loving Atheist

Ridiculous. I didn't expect anything else.

Just google for Degrelle (Degrelle forum) and jump into the first german-language forum listed there (thiazi.net). You don't even have to speak german (I do by the way), just have a look at the pictures, signatures etc. The brand of participants you'll find there might shock you out of your pink reading glasses, or you'll find yourself some buddies.


edit: typo

[Mynok]

If you keep feeding the trolls, they will keep coming back. [:-]

[Mehring]

If the nazis had been kept from power they could not have driven germany down the road to war, mass deportation and extermination camps. There simply was no other powerful political fraction in the Weimar Republic with expansionist warfare on their agenda, communist takeover was no danger in 1932.

Not sure what you mean by "kept from power." With their support already waning they were placed in absolute power by the conservatives and liberals, the so called "enabling act." With Hitler's expansionist aims clearly set out, this can only be seen as the nazis representing the aims and interests of the majority of the German ruling class and being its chosen tool.

So who could have kept them from power? The social democrats and comunists gained more votes combined than did the nazis in the last election of the Weimar republic. The SPD were commited to working legally. With the ruling class decided upon the nazis as their political tool, legal means were not going to succeed.

The communist party was by now reduced to a pawn of its dominant Russian sibling which was currently undergoing a counter-revolution. As such, it subordinated its international sections to promoting the nationalist interests of the new Russian ruling class, first and foremeost, the stifling of new revolutions. It even voted with the nazis in the so called "red referendum."

None of this had been digested by the German working class, the only social force that could conceivably have organised to overthrow the nazis. In these concrete circumstances, the nazis attaining state power and embarking upon a new expansionist war was all but inevitable.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


If you keep feeding the trolls, they will keep coming back. [:-]

If you blow up their bridge the become homeless and move away. [8D]

Why do I always think of three billy goats when someone mentions trolls? [:D]

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Mehring

If the nazis had been kept from power they could not have driven germany down the road to war, mass deportation and extermination camps. There simply was no other powerful political fraction in the Weimar Republic with expansionist warfare on their agenda, communist takeover was no danger in 1932.

Not sure what you mean by "kept from power." With their support already waning they were placed in absolute power by the conservatives and liberals, the so called "enabling act." With Hitler's expansionist aims clearly set out, this can only be seen as the nazis representing the aims and interests of the majority of the German ruling class and being its chosen tool.

So who could have kept them from power? The social democrats and comunists gained more votes combined than did the nazis in the last election of the Weimar republic. The SPD were commited to working legally. With the ruling class decided upon the nazis as their political tool, legal means were not going to succeed.

The communist party was by now reduced to a pawn of its dominant Russian sibling which was currently undergoing a counter-revolution. As such, it subordinated its international sections to promoting the nationalist interests of the new Russian ruling class, first and foremeost, the stifling of new revolutions. It even voted with the nazis in the so called "red referendum."

None of this had been digested by the German working class, the only social force that could conceivably have organised to overthrow the nazis. In these concrete circumstances, the nazis attaining state power and embarking upon a new expansionist war was all but inevitable.

Hitler was appointed. Not elected. Papen could have kept Hitler from power. It was he who convinced Hindenburg to appoint Hitler Chancellor and it was he who allowed Nazi party members to be appointed to Cabinet posts. Remove Papen and you remove Hitler and the Nazis. They would have had to form a coalition party, laughable, or attempted another coup.

[Lrfss]

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

You answer MY question,if someone saw you reading a book about the german attack on france and scolded you for reading pro nazi literature and how can you read that don't you remember the holocaust.What would be your intelligent responce[sorry i know that intelligent part is a stretch]?

Can I answer this question[8|] First I would size up who the heck has the nerve to question what I'm reading, being in particular I live in America and all, Thank God[&o] Now if that person was annoying as say someone I won't name that posts here that appears to be a troll like liberal luny with an extreme backward way of thinking, I would tell that person to move on as they have no clue and it's none of thier concern in essense! If that doesn't work, I guess it's time to breakout that 'ole can of whoop A**[X(] Don't mess with Texas, we still have Freedom here!

I just checked my library and I have about 600 books on WWII and only two deal with the Holocaust at length, those two books were part of a series is why I even have them! I don't need any books on that subject as my T.V., Newspapers and schools have been infested with the subject matter for about 45 some odd years now... I have three kids in school and they are telling me about all this stuff, all over again.

Bottom line "Get over it, it happened, it's done"[X(]

BTW, I finished "Degrelle's" book finally and enjoyed it! Amazing since I'm not even a NAZI or even a want-to-be at that...

[Reconvet]

Let this thread die. Google for this mislead individual as I suggested in post 165, look what kind of individuals is assembled in that forum, and it is fully clear why this thread here was opened. Don't help this group to more prominent hits in search engines than they already achieved.

As for those who claim to have hundreds of books on WWII and who enjoyed this or that book that has been ripped apart in professional evaluations: You are prime examples why history repeats itself.

Reading should be a critical process, doing cross-comparison with other sources, evaluating the presented data to be able to really gain solid knowledge. And the most important thing should be recognizing parallels when they start forming again in today's societies. But that would require the ability to recognize and tap multiple non-biased news sources, but that's asked too much of people only interested in superficial entertainment and who mistake Fox TV for anything else than Goebbels-style propaganda...

@Lrfss: It speaks for itself that you enjoy the output of an "unrepentant nazi" and that you think that industrialized mass murder should be something not worth mentionning again. Let's just forget it, hm? Crimes against humanity is not something happening again and again. At least not in my cosy free Texas and why should the rest of the planet bugger me at all... What a nice product of the US education and information system you are, awesome.

[Muzrub]

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

You answer MY question,if someone saw you reading a book about the german attack on france and scolded you for reading pro nazi literature and how can you read that don't you remember the holocaust.What would be your intelligent responce[sorry i know that intelligent part is a stretch]?

Can I answer this question[8|] First I would size up who the heck has the nerve to question what I'm reading, being in particular I live in America and all, Thank God[&o] Now if that person was annoying as say someone I won't name that posts here that appears to be a troll like liberal luny with an extreme backward way of thinking, I would tell that person to move on as they have no clue and it's none of thier concern in essense! If that doesn't work, I guess it's time to breakout that 'ole can of whoop A**[X(] Don't mess with Texas, we still have Freedom here!

I just checked my library and I have about 600 books on WWII and only two deal with the Holocaust at length, those two books were part of a series is why I even have them! I don't need any books on that subject as my T.V., Newspapers and schools have been infested with the subject matter for about 45 some odd years now... I have three kids in school and they are telling me about all this stuff, all over again.

Bottom line "Get over it, it happened, it's done"[X(]

BTW, I finished "Degrelle's" book finally and enjoyed it! Amazing since I'm not even a NAZI or even a want-to-be at that...

'Get over it, it happened, it's done'

Is this in reference to the camps? I'm asking because surely your not discarding what happened with such a line. Surely not?
I see you said 'Don't mess with Texas, we still have Freedom here!'...

What kind of freedom allows a man to be so dismissive?
Empathy and understanding are not traits to be only set aside for liberals, feeling for the poor wretched souls who died in the camps is not being weak or a loon.

If your willing to read the words of a Nazi- and exclaim its greatness, maybe you should read the words of a Nazi's victim to fully round off your joy of freedom!

[Lrfss]

ORIGINAL: Muzrub

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

You answer MY question,if someone saw you reading a book about the german attack on france and scolded you for reading pro nazi literature and how can you read that don't you remember the holocaust.What would be your intelligent responce[sorry i know that intelligent part is a stretch]?

Can I answer this question[8|] First I would size up who the heck has the nerve to question what I'm reading, being in particular I live in America and all, Thank God[&o] Now if that person was annoying as say someone I won't name that posts here that appears to be a troll like liberal luny with an extreme backward way of thinking, I would tell that person to move on as they have no clue and it's none of thier concern in essense! If that doesn't work, I guess it's time to breakout that 'ole can of whoop A**[X(] Don't mess with Texas, we still have Freedom here!

I just checked my library and I have about 600 books on WWII and only two deal with the Holocaust at length, those two books were part of a series is why I even have them! I don't need any books on that subject as my T.V., Newspapers and schools have been infested with the subject matter for about 45 some odd years now... I have three kids in school and they are telling me about all this stuff, all over again.

Bottom line "Get over it, it happened, it's done"[X(]

BTW, I finished "Degrelle's" book finally and enjoyed it! Amazing since I'm not even a NAZI or even a want-to-be at that...

'Get over it, it happened, it's done'

Is this in reference to the camps? I'm asking because surely your not discarding what happened with such a line. Surely not?
I see you said 'Don't mess with Texas, we still have Freedom here!'...

What kind of freedom allows a man to be so dismissive?
Empathy and understanding are not traits to be only set aside for liberals, feeling for the poor wretched souls who died in the camps is not being weak or a loon.

If your willing to read the words of a Nazi- and exclaim its greatness, maybe you should read the words of a Nazi's victim to fully round off your joy of freedom!

Well no need to highlight anything here, it's all wrong and no need to put words in my mouth, thanks though! Maybe you should re-read what I wrote in the context in which it was written assuming you can see after wiping the tears from your eyes? Oh and the part about Freedom to answer such a silly question, one of the things it means here in the U.S. is "choice". BTW, I think you guys over there have some of that "Freedom" stuff going on too, enjoy while you can! As one thoughtful Poster here had mentioned the "Thought Police". Careful they may be coming to your town and already apparently entered your head, put on your Tin Foil Hat back on, it will help with the thought scans[:D]

[Lrfss]

ORIGINAL: Reconvet


Let this thread die. Google for this mislead individual as I suggested in post 165, look what kind of individuals is assembled in that forum, and it is fully clear why this thread here was opened. Don't help this group to more prominent hits in search engines than they already achieved.

As for those who claim to have hundreds of books on WWII and who enjoyed this or that book that has been ripped apart in professional evaluations: You are prime examples why history repeats itself.

Reading should be a critical process, doing cross-comparison with other sources, evaluating the presented data to be able to really gain solid knowledge. And the most important thing should be recognizing parallels when they start forming again in today's societies. But that would require the ability to recognize and tap multiple non-biased news sources, but that's asked too much of people only interested in superficial entertainment and who mistake Fox TV for anything else than Goebbels-style propaganda...

@Lrfss: It speaks for itself that you enjoy the output of an "unrepentant nazi" and that you think that industrialized mass murder should be something not worth mentionning again. Let's just forget it, hm? Crimes against humanity is not something happening again and again. At least not in my cosy free Texas and why should the rest of the planet bugger me at all... What a nice product of the US education and information system you are, awesome.

Thank you, I'm honored. It's the only thing I've read that you stated that I would concur with[;)]

[barkman44]

who mistake Fox TV for anything else than Goebbels-style propaganda

A liberal progressive,I knew it but did'nt want to bring up politic's.Now I have to wonder why you object so much to neo-NAZI'S,it's short for national SOCIALIST being a socialist yourself what's the problem.If I had known I was argueing with a liberal progressive socialist
I would'nt,for how can my meagre intelligence compete against the super brain that dwell's in this miscreant's head.
I'm willing to bet you have an altar to woodrow wilson down in your parent's basement where you sit in your boxers one hand jammed down the front of them carefully scanning forums for opinion's that don't jib with your holier than thou super intellect,you must be a real buzz killer at parties.
Now as for denieing the holocaust,it's impossible.National SOCIALIST germany was the most beurocratic government in history and kept detailed record's of everything including the final solution.
Interstingly when i was in the army in germany in the mid '70's I could'nt find any national SOCIALIST'S.Also nobody supported the national SOCIALIST party and nobody voted for hitler.The word's "collective guilt" come to mind.
This is my last post on this subject,now in the immortal word's of John Wayne in Big Jake"you can go to hell"[but you won't be insulted for as
being a progressive liberal socialist you don't believe in hell or heaven do you].
By the way the national SOCIALISTparty was a LEFTIST organization which is why I find it ironic when a liberal call's a conservative a nazi[national SOCIALIST]Bye bye bird brain[;)]

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

ORIGINAL: Reconvet
What a nice product of the US education and information system you are, awesome.

Thank you, I'm honored. It's the only thing I've read that you stated that I would concur with[;)]

Well, I had my doubts that you'd dig the obvious irony in my statement above. Live on your merry life, unsoiled by other "values" than texan patriotism.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
Now as for denieing the holocaust,it's impossible.National SOCIALIST germany was the most beurocratic government in history and kept detailed record's of everything including the final solution.

Oh my, now your buddies will be angry with you. You should have claimed that there didn't exist anything like a final solution, and that all the evidence was fully made up by the evil occupation forces (all controlled by the jewish-bolshevik world conspiracy against heroic germany of course) which turned your idols into martyrs. That's the usual tactic the likes of you normally use when confronted, no? Now you'll be expelled from your arian circles...

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
Interstingly when i was in the army in germany in the mid '70's I could'nt find any national SOCIALIST'S.Also nobody supported the national SOCIALIST party and nobody voted for hitler.

So you were looking for neo buddies when you served and felt lonely because they were still undercover back then?

As for the rest of your output: ***yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn***


Damn, I really wanted to stop feeding you trolls. I'll have to try harder, but somehow this thread is getting so absurd that it kind of starts to get funny...

[Panama]

While wallowing in the mud and filth of the trollways is something I've, on occasion, descended to. However...

This thread has obviously outlived it usefulness and has long ago been derailed from WitE.

It would be nice if it could die it's death and get locked down. The mud has turned to crap and the smell is getting far too unbearable.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Panama

While wallowing in the mud and filth of the trollways is something I've, on occasion, descended to. However...

This thread has obviously outlived it usefulness and has long ago been derailed from WitE.

It would be nice if it could die it's death and get locked down. The mud has turned to crap and the smell is getting far too unbearable.

+1 (I asked in my first post, looooong ago, to lock this one up...)

[squatter]

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

who mistake Fox TV for anything else than Goebbels-style propaganda

A liberal progressive,I knew it but did'nt want to bring up politic's.Now I have to wonder why you object so much to neo-NAZI'S,it's short for national SOCIALIST being a socialist yourself what's the problem.If I had known I was argueing with a liberal progressive socialist
I would'nt,for how can my meagre intelligence compete against the super brain that dwell's in this miscreant's head.
I'm willing to bet you have an altar to woodrow wilson down in your parent's basement where you sit in your boxers one hand jammed down the front of them carefully scanning forums for opinion's that don't jib with your holier than thou super intellect,you must be a real buzz killer at parties.
Now as for denieing the holocaust,it's impossible.National SOCIALIST germany was the most beurocratic government in history and kept detailed record's of everything including the final solution.
Interstingly when i was in the army in germany in the mid '70's I could'nt find any national SOCIALIST'S.Also nobody supported the national SOCIALIST party and nobody voted for hitler.The word's "collective guilt" come to mind.
This is my last post on this subject,now in the immortal word's of John Wayne in Big Jake"you can go to hell"[but you won't be insulted for as
being a progressive liberal socialist you don't believe in hell or heaven do you].
By the way the national SOCIALISTparty was a LEFTIST organization which is why I find it ironic when a liberal call's a conservative a nazi[national SOCIALIST]Bye bye bird brain[;)]

Sweet Jesus. That's one of the most incredible posts I've ever read.

Are you George W Bush?