New Heroes of Stalingrad Screens

[WilliePete]

It's good to hear from you again, Mark! Great screens! Forgive me for being direct, but can you give us a straight answer on the status of HoS? As you know, many of us have been lurking around these forums for years, hoping that one day this game would see the light of day. We all appreciate the hard work going into this, but the waiting is depressing. However, giving us some kind of time frame would make the waiting easier. The fans are patiently waiting for good news!

[Mad Russian]

What may be more productive than trying to nail down an exact release date is letting everyone know what % of the game is completed.

Are you 25% done with the game, 50%, 90%? Where are you in the range of completion? Because most of us have been involved with game development from one side or the other and understand that "things come up". Especially at the end when all the playtesting comes together.

So rather than continually ask for a completion date for the game I think you should be wondering just how advanced the programming has gotten. Release dates are not normally "concrete" until about 2 weeks before the time and even then "things can happen."

Some kind of completion updates from the developer, here on the games own forum shouldn't be too hard for him to do either. Much easier than trying to answer the same question of "WHEN" everytime he drops in to give you guys SOMETHING on the game.

Just my $.02 worth.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

What may be more productive than trying to nail down an exact release date is letting everyone know what % of the game is completed.

Are you 25% done with the game, 50%, 90%? Where are you in the range of completion? Because most of us have been involved with game development from one side or the other and understand that "things come up". Especially at the end when all the playtesting comes together.

So rather than continually ask for a completion date for the game I think you should be wondering just how advanced the programming has gotten. Release dates are not normally "concrete" until about 2 weeks before the time and even then "things can happen."

Some kind of completion updates from the developer, here on the games own forum shouldn't be too hard for him to do either. Much easier than trying to answer the same question of "WHEN" everytime he drops in to give you guys SOMETHING on the game.

Just my $.02 worth.

Good Hunting.

MR

The reason I ask "when" is because Walker tends to give very nebulous answers. Saying that a game is 90% done tells us nothing. A game that's 90% done could be released this year, or in ten years, or never. Further to that, we don't ask "when" every time he gives us something. We ask "when" whether he gives us something or not. What's more I don't recall asking for a target *date* or even a target *month*. I *have* asked Walker to give us a target *year*, but no dice. So good luck getting any sort of answer that actually commits him.

[Mad Russian]

What I'm saying is if he's only 10% done you don't need to ask anything. If he's 90% done then you know he's getting close.

I know that there are no absolutes in the computer game design business. We've been 2+ years doing the PCO update. It was a big decision as to when to go public with that news so that we could support the update with material enough to build both momentum for the update and keep people's attention at the same time.

Mark may feel he's already doing that with the FB and LnL postings. I'm sure you wouldn't think he has. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives that may not be so frustrating for all those involved.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

What I'm saying is if he's only 10% done you don't need to ask anything. If he's 90% done then you know he's getting close.

I know that there are no absolutes in the computer game design business. We've been 2+ years doing the PCO update. It was a big decision as to when to go public with that news so that we could support the update with material enough to build both momentum for the update and keep people's attention at the same time.

Mark may feel he's already doing that with the FB and LnL postings. I'm sure you wouldn't think he has. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives that may not be so frustrating for all those involved.

Good Hunting.

MR

Please believe me when I say that I'm not trying to be argumentative as no good can come from us arguing with each other.

I don't believe that Walker informing us that the game is 90% complete tells us anything since any given game company can complete a project in a short period of time from 10% complete, or take 10 years to complete a game when it's already 90% done. IMHO, there is no satisfactory alternative to a firm commitment. If we were given any sort of time frame for the completion of the project any screen shots or other information would be exciting. Otherwise we just watch the years go by with no end in sight. So I say we stop asking for "half steps" like "what percentage is complete" or "where are you in the project" or saying "gosharootie Mark. Thanks so much for actually posting on this board". As if any of that gets us anywhere. and ask the most obvious question: "When are you going to finish this thing?".

[Mad Russian]

Okay.

So how has that been working out for you?

Good Hunting.

MR

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Okay.

So how has that been working out for you?

Good Hunting.

MR

It hasn't been working out well at all, but only a very few people are asking and others have given up entirely. As another member of this group said, "this project isn't high on his list", but if 100 people on this page, facebook, and other sites asked "where's the game?", maybe we'd get a better response. I don't know what it would take to get Walker to move on this project, but it seems logical to me that the more people that ask, the more interested in finishing it he will become. He says that the project is moving as fast as it can considering his resources, but I can only believe that to a certain degree. If, for instance, Walker stood to make a sure twenty million bucks on the game he'd drop everything else and move so fast on HOS he'd leave skid marks! Now we know that's not going to happen, but the point is that anyone will step up the program with the right motivation. He's obviously just not motivated.

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Gunhawk

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Okay.

So how has that been working out for you?

Good Hunting.

MR

It hasn't been working out well at all, but only a very few people are asking and others have given up entirely. As another member of this group said, "this project isn't high on his list", but if 100 people on this page, facebook, and other sites asked "where's the game?", maybe we'd get a better response. I don't know what it would take to get Walker to move on this project, but it seems logical to me that the more people that ask, the more interested in finishing it he will become. He says that the project is moving as fast as it can considering his resources, but I can only believe that to a certain degree. If, for instance, Walker stood to make a sure twenty million bucks on the game he'd drop everything else and move so fast on HOS he'd leave skid marks! Now we know that's not going to happen, but the point is that anyone will step up the program with the right motivation. He's obviously just not motivated.

Or he's part of a small company that can't throw ten programmers and graphics artists at a computer game. You're talking like he has the resources of EA over there, able to assign as many people as necessary right now...he isn't.

On top of all of that, the company also produces board games, and can't put all of that on hold since that is bringing in money...money needed to not just stay afloat, but also to fund development of this game.

Your expectations don't seem in any way realistic considering the situation. Have there been delays? Yes, and that's unfortunate. And I certainly agree that communication could have been better. But 100 people screaming "Why?" every week like a bunch of children would produce only one thing for everyone involved : annoyance.

[parusski]

Arctic Blast

Very good reply Arctic Blast. I am amazed at the near sense of entitlement people show. If Mark releases this game in my lifetime, even ten years from now, I will buy it. He owes us nothing.

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

ORIGINAL: Gunhawk

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Okay.

So how has that been working out for you?

Good Hunting.

MR

It hasn't been working out well at all, but only a very few people are asking and others have given up entirely. As another member of this group said, "this project isn't high on his list", but if 100 people on this page, facebook, and other sites asked "where's the game?", maybe we'd get a better response. I don't know what it would take to get Walker to move on this project, but it seems logical to me that the more people that ask, the more interested in finishing it he will become. He says that the project is moving as fast as it can considering his resources, but I can only believe that to a certain degree. If, for instance, Walker stood to make a sure twenty million bucks on the game he'd drop everything else and move so fast on HOS he'd leave skid marks! Now we know that's not going to happen, but the point is that anyone will step up the program with the right motivation. He's obviously just not motivated.

Or he's part of a small company that can't throw ten programmers and graphics artists at a computer game. You're talking like he has the resources of EA over there, able to assign as many people as necessary right now...he isn't.

On top of all of that, the company also produces board games, and can't put all of that on hold since that is bringing in money...money needed to not just stay afloat, but also to fund development of this game.

Your expectations don't seem in any way realistic considering the situation. Have there been delays? Yes, and that's unfortunate. And I certainly agree that communication could have been better. But 100 people screaming "Why?" every week like a bunch of children would produce only one thing for everyone involved : annoyance.

Did you have a problem reading my post? I didn't say to "scream why?". We already *know* why. I said to ask "where's the game". So don't change my words to help to further your point. *That's* childish.

I don't know what Walker's resources are. I said that this game is not high on his list. Why shouldn't we ask him to try to move it along? After all, we've been waiting a *very* long time. How does that make us children? If we accepted every vague answer, *that* would make us children.

Artic Blast: I've said it before, and I'll say it yet *AGAIN*. After asking us to wait six years he certainly *does* owe us a game.

[Barthheart]

He owes you nothing. Get over yourself.[8|]

Artic Blast and parusski: Give up on Gunhawk, he just likes to read his own words. Maybe Mark can figure out a way to make sure Gunhawk can't buy the game when it's done.! [:D]

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

He owes you nothing. Get over yourself.[8|]

Artic Blast and parusski: Give up on Gunhawk, he just likes to read his own words. Maybe Mark can figure out a way to make sure Gunhawk can't buy the game when it's done.! [:D]

I see. You can't come up with a logical argument for why a game takes at *least* six years to publish so you want to attack me personally. Sure i like to read my own words. What have you said that's so full of insight? At least I try to avoid a conflict between the members of the group while you're trying to start one. What's your input? Oh wait. Now I remember. You're the guy who knows someone involved in the beta testing. Right. So what information do you have for us oh Swami? "Be patient and keep waiting". Are you sure that you're allowed to let that information out? I'm flabbergasted at your inspirational words. Gee, why didn't any of us think of that? And aren't you putting the cart before the horse? i wouldn't worry about whether I can get a game or not, since...guess what... there is no game. That's the bottom line isn't it. That's the elephant in the room that stops all BS discussion. No...effing...game!

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

He owes you nothing. Get over yourself.[8|]

Artic Blast and parusski: Give up on Gunhawk, he just likes to read his own words. Maybe Mark can figure out a way to make sure Gunhawk can't buy the game when it's done.! [:D]

[Gunhawk]

ROTFLMAO! Wow! You guys sure showed me. Look...I'm gonna make a little face too and then go take a nap until
you come up with something better. [>:]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

He owes you nothing. Get over yourself.[8|]

Artic Blast and parusski: Give up on Gunhawk, he just likes to read his own words. Maybe Mark can figure out a way to make sure Gunhawk can't buy the game when it's done.! [:D]

[Keunert]

[8D]

[diablo1]

*That's* childish.

Hrmmm where have I see that before??

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Gunhawk
Did you have a problem reading my post? I didn't say to "scream why?". We already *know* why. I said to ask "where's the game". So don't change my words to help to further your point. *That's* childish.

I don't know what Walker's resources are. I said that this game is not high on his list. Why shouldn't we ask him to try to move it along? After all, we've been waiting a *very* long time. How does that make us children? If we accepted every vague answer, *that* would make us children.

Artic Blast: I've said it before, and I'll say it yet *AGAIN*. After asking us to wait six years he certainly *does* owe us a game.

Of course the game isn't at the top of his list. As I already said, Lock n' Load's primary source of revenue is BOARD GAMES. To have them completely drop that and make this priority one would be silly at best, financial suicide for the company at worst. They need revenue coming in regardless of what projects they're working on. Continuing to work on their successful board game properties makes sure that's happening, AND provides the money to cover the costs of developing the computer game. So of course this game is not going to be near the top of their priority list, nor should it be.

And WHY are you owed a game? Seriously, do you not realize how entitled and overly dramatic that comes off? We are owed NOTHING. If Mark decides to drop this project and move on, it would be incredibly disappointing, but that's it.

[helm123456789]

I read some of Gunhawk's post and all that comes to mind is my nine year old son and his tendency to through fits with his mother in the store when he sees something he wants....and doesn't get.  Just like my son your not entitled or owed a thing from anyone.  I could understand your rant if you had indeed invested something tangible into the game before it's finished.  If you invested with money for Mark to live off of while developing this title I stand corrected, but I don't think that it the case.  In all likelihood your reading a forum and following a products development like the rest of us.  If you feel that entitles you to said product you really need to reevaluate this hobby.  This isn't the first or last game that will take a long time to develop with little information going to the interested and potential customer.

Go outside enjoy some fresh air.  Heck go get stinking drunk if that helps, but realize this is a game and you haven't lost a dime on it.  God if development gets dropped Mark will need a protective order from you the way your acting now. 

@Mark
What ever you do brother don't drop development.

[Gunhawk]

>>WHY are you owed a game? Seriously,<<

I've answered this question before, but since you asked in a non-confrontational way i'll explain.

Morals: Of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior: ethical <moral judgments>

I assume that Walker is a moral person. A man with ethics. And that you feel the same way.

Integrity: Possession of firm principles: the quality of possessing and steadfastly adhering to high moral principles or PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS. (emphasis mine).

I also assume that Walker is a man with professional standards.

Standards: Those morals, ethics, habits, etc., established by authority, custom, or an individual as acceptable.

Now we can say that he also say that he has standards by virtue of his morals and ethics.

Obligation: The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or MORAL tie. (emphasis mine)

Now we've established that since Walker has morals, professional standards and ethics, we can also assume that he can also understand how obligation is defined.

Owe: To have a responsibility to do something to satisfy an obligation or duty.

So, since Walker, theoretically at least, understands that he has an obligation, and he has *repeatedly* told us to be patient and that a game *is* coming, and has also kept us waiting for *years*, if he did *not* deliver a game he would be violating any rational person's interpretation of professional standards. What's more, the longer he keeps us waiting, the stronger his obligation is to finish.

In short. He owes us a game. Unless, of course, in your opinion it's unnecessary to have professional standards.























Standards












Morals of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior









ob·li·ga·tion (b l-g sh n) n. 1. The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie. 2. a. A social, legal, or moral requirement, such as a duty, contract ...





owe

to have a responsibility to do something to satisfy an obligation or duty <owes it to voters to explain his reasons>





Standards




standards, those morals, ethics, habits, etc., established by authority, custom, or an individual as acceptable

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: helm123456789

I read some of Gunhawk's post and all that comes to mind is my nine year old son and his tendency to through fits with his mother in the store when he sees something he wants....and doesn't get.  Just like my son your not entitled or owed a thing from anyone.  I could understand your rant if you had indeed invested something tangible into the game before it's finished.  If you invested with money for Mark to live off of while developing this title I stand corrected, but I don't think that it the case.  In all likelihood your reading a forum and following a products development like the rest of us.  If you feel that entitles you to said product you really need to reevaluate this hobby.  This isn't the first or last game that will take a long time to develop with little information going to the interested and potential customer.

Go outside enjoy some fresh air.  Heck go get stinking drunk if that helps, but realize this is a game and you haven't lost a dime on it.  God if development gets dropped Mark will need a protective order from you the way your acting now. 

@Mark
What ever you do brother don't drop development.

Nice picture. Makes me feel like I'm corresponding with an idiot or a maniac.