Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg

[Senno]

Turn 16:

AGC:

Southwest of Moscow elements of Second Panzer start to threaten Moscow, while starting to form a small secondary pocket.

[Senno]

Turn 16:

AGC:

Fourth Army launches local attacks. And the little pocket that existed southwest of Vyazma has been closed down.

He's committed the airborne units into the line, which is a good thing from my point of view. His manpower must be getting low at this point, I hope. I'm also attacking his cavalry units and armored, as he's put them into the line for the defense of Moscow. I'm attacking the mobile units I see, hopeing that the intensity of his winter attacks are reduced from "annihilating" to "overwhelming", haha.

I hope to have an army of 2 million left come spring, basically..... Have 3.475 million now.

[Encircled]

Welcome back Senno

What you need is that Bicycle Recon Battalion

It can win the war on its own

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Welcome back Senno

What you need is that Bicycle Recon Battalion

It can win the war on its own

Thanks.

LoL.

[Senno]

Turn 16

Pripyet Pocket:

The Prip pocket is finally reducted completely. The last 2 units lasted from turn 8 or so until now, both falling to hasty attacks. I'm not sure how many I trapped in there, lol, about 20 or so I suppose. Oleg never attacked with his surrounded units, but they've been a thorn in my side until now...

The preparations I've made along the Dnepr are now pictured. Given BA's prior calculations, I hope to not have to fall back behind this line.

[squatter]

I'm sure you've thought of all of this anyway, but in my experience, giving him three clear hexes per turn of blizzard to advance into will take the sting off the worst of it (after December, blizzard effects ease off a little). I dug a prepared line around 12 hexes behind the initial front line to fall back to where possible. Get some divs broke down to regiments to help your Fort units doing that asap. Three hexes means his deliberate attacks are almost impossible. You'll have the patch before blizzard though, so shouldnt be as painful.

Good terrain helps, obviously. Remember rivers freeze and are useless for defence in blizzard. That means the south is the hardest to defend. You can afford to let him make large salients in swathes of the mid/mid south map so you dont have to try and build a full fort line - that's impossible anyway. Come the spring, you'll appreciate having salients to attack anyways.

Keep hitting him with cheap deliberate attacks all the way through the snow, if not one or two limited pocket offensives. Dont get caught with units the wrong side of a un-reduced pocket on the first turn of blizzard.

Re: the Finns - they are become your best troops alongside your mountain units in blizzard. There's no way on earth he'll take Leningrad, or anything else in their sector. You can go over to the offensive with the Finns if he leaves anything north of their line, believe me. Push towards whatever that city is called in their zone through the snow and blizzard. Anything he throws at the Finns is a blessing as they're not being used elsewhere. Highly recommend two rows of forts in the crucial areas - I suspect the join between the Finns and AGN will be one - he might try at least to separate the Finns from the rest of your army that way.

Regarding the fortified zones you're building - be sure to disband each of them just before he comes into contact with them too. Finally, urban hexes and towns with population 2 or above become gold dust for sheltering from blizzard attrition. Obviously try and keep your best units in them, and/or rotate battered units to these hexes behind the lines.

Looking at your dniepre line, the hexes on HIS side of the river are actually better to defend in many cases, where they are woods or swamp, as the river itself will freeze and not offer any protection.

[Senno]

Turn 16:

AGS:

Sixth Army conducted some local attacks and began forming winter defenses.

First Panzer continues rolling down the Dnepr on the way to Dneprovstock.

AGS has been the last priority during '41 and it really shows. Still bogged down, basically. If I survive the winter, that priority will change in '42.

Just 1 turn left until mud, and then Oleg's "supermen" take the field....

[Senno]

Turn 16:

AGS:

I've got to keep some pressure on down in AGS so Oleg doesn't strip even more reserves and put them on the Moscow approaches. So, First Panzer and Seventeenth Army combine to break through and head south towards Apostolovo. Depending on how he reacts, next turn I may wheel west and head towards Nikolaev. Most likely he will glom onto the exposed motorized division and retreat east by south east off the lower Bug.

It certainly feels like to little, to late down in AGS, but I've got to keep trying until winter...

The Romanians conducted a number of local attacks and the Romanian armored exploited a small opening, but lack the MP's to do much at all.

My turn 1 failure to pocket anything continues to hurt down here in AGS...

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Senno

Hmm, not quite flat-lined, it seems.

After reading about the collapse of BA's and Oleg's game, I decided to contact Oleg to see if he wanted to resurrect this game. He has agreed, so we will continue playing.

Good to see you back - we all need more data from players and more good AARs!


Leo "Apollo11"

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: squatter

I'm sure you've thought of all of this anyway, but in my experience, giving him three clear hexes per turn of blizzard to advance into will take the sting off the worst of it (after December, blizzard effects ease off a little). I dug a prepared line around 12 hexes behind the initial front line to fall back to where possible. Get some divs broke down to regiments to help your Fort units doing that asap. Three hexes means his deliberate attacks are almost impossible. You'll have the patch before blizzard though, so shouldnt be as painful.

Good terrain helps, obviously. Remember rivers freeze and are useless for defence in blizzard. That means the south is the hardest to defend. You can afford to let him make large salients in swathes of the mid/mid south map so you dont have to try and build a full fort line - that's impossible anyway. Come the spring, you'll appreciate having salients to attack anyways.

Keep hitting him with cheap deliberate attacks all the way through the snow, if not one or two limited pocket offensives. Dont get caught with units the wrong side of a un-reduced pocket on the first turn of blizzard.

Re: the Finns - they are become your best troops alongside your mountain units in blizzard. There's no way on earth he'll take Leningrad, or anything else in their sector. You can go over to the offensive with the Finns if he leaves anything north of their line, believe me. Push towards whatever that city is called in their zone through the snow and blizzard. Anything he throws at the Finns is a blessing as they're not being used elsewhere. Highly recommend two rows of forts in the crucial areas - I suspect the join between the Finns and AGN will be one - he might try at least to separate the Finns from the rest of your army that way.

Regarding the fortified zones you're building - be sure to disband each of them just before he comes into contact with them too. Finally, urban hexes and towns with population 2 or above become gold dust for sheltering from blizzard attrition. Obviously try and keep your best units in them, and/or rotate battered units to these hexes behind the lines.

Looking at your dniepre line, the hexes on HIS side of the river are actually better to defend in many cases, where they are woods or swamp, as the river itself will freeze and not offer any protection.

Thanks for the advice, Squatter.

Reading about how Oleg lined up 7200 guns against BA is intimidating. At this point, I'm not sure if ignoring the terrain, and just having my lines be as straight as possible might be the the way to go. Giving Oleg even more hexsides to attack from in deliberate attacks is a scary thought.

The mobile defense seems a bit gamey also, but if I just sit there, he's gonna crush me along the whole line, for certain.

I will disband the forts as he gets close, thanks for reminding me of that.

The Panzers will be out of the line in population centers on reserve status.

The turn is back with Oleg now, he might not get it back til Wednesday. Giving me a large amount of time to worry about the upcoming mud and blizzard, haha....

Next turn starts the full switchover to defense for me I think. I'm very late with it anyway, been trying to grab Leningrad and Moscow. I'm just going to leave Moscow for '42, if I have an army left.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Senno

Hmm, not quite flat-lined, it seems.

After reading about the collapse of BA's and Oleg's game, I decided to contact Oleg to see if he wanted to resurrect this game. He has agreed, so we will continue playing.

Good to see you back - we all need more data from players and more good AARs!


Leo "Apollo11"

Thanks Apollo.

[Senno]

Turn 17:

AGN:

Soviet forces in the Leningrad pocket are isolated and the Finns link up and begin heading south.

18th Army begins setting defenses on the Volkhov, digging in until the Finns arrive and 18th army can filter south.

Elements of Fourth Panzer has also linked up with the Finns east of Lake Ladoga. The Finns head south, meeting light screening forces on the Oyat and Pasha Rivers.

L Corps of Second Army moves onto the rail line, and will rail towards their winter quarters next turn.

I expect a general offensive along the front, with Pskov being a major objective, along with Leningrad.

2 Corps of Second Army remain south of Lake Ilmen digging in further, with defenses extending down south along the Pola River.

I am intending to set defenses along the Pola/Volga line, linking up with AGC at the Northern Volga River vicinity.

[Senno]

Turn 17:

AGC:

Ninth Army sets defenses along the Volga. Trying out the linebacker defense this game. At least where I have forces to set it up.

Once the Finns arrive in place, heavy forces of AGN will shift south taking their winter quarters. I need to tie in with AGN/2nd Army, and prepare for a general offensive. I anticipate my rail line through Smolensk (finally reached Vyazma this turn) to be a major objective.

[Senno]

Turn 17:

AGC:

Fourth army begins setting up a linebacker defense, and ties in with elements of Seventeenth Army northeast of Chernigov.

Second Panzer, along with Third Panzer withdraws from the late drive on Moscow. The need to set defenses for the coming blizzard is great. The mobile forces are still in good to great shape, and will be ready to respond to the expected massive counter-attacks.

[Senno]

Turn 17:

AGS:

Seventeenth Army continues toadvance towards the Dnepr.

Eleventh army and the Romanians hit at the Nikolaev salient.

I hope to drive the Soviets behind the Dnepr at least, to try to hold onto Odessa and keep the Romanians in the war.

[Klydon]

Good to see this one is underway again.

I would not be so fast to go into passive mode against the Russians at this point. I am not saying you have to be aggressive across the board, but you need to be thinking about what you are going to do during the three turns of snow before the blizzard comes. I think PDH has pretty much shown the way that if the Germans are aggressive and come out swinging in the snow to disrupt Russian plans for their blizzard offensive, it certainly helps the Axis cause during their most vulnerable period of December.

The other thing to give thought to is what you plan on doing with your mountain units.

[Senno]

Thank you, Klydon.

I'm undecided what to do with the winter turns. I will probably launch local attacks along the line, and seek openings to create small pockets. He's thickened up the approaches to Moscow enough that I don't think an attack would be successful.

But for the most part, I realize I need to shift the infantry armies south, letting the Finns occupy north of Lake Ilmen and then shift everything south in to thicken east of Kiev and Gomel to have viable defenses going forward the next few turns.

So, whether the Panzers are active in the winter depends on Oleg.

I expect to transfer the mountain units to 11th Army and place them on the south Dnepr, to protect my rail-lines which are now northeast of Kirovograd. I expect the Soviets to attempt to recapture Odessa and try to get in position to force an early Romanian surrender if possible in '42.

I realize they may have to be transferred to the area of heaviest fighting, though.

The Romanian mountain units are now on the lower Bug, and will be used to protect the approaches to Odessa.