Bought it, not real happy with it

[Magpius]

@Steely, don't get so hung up about the pixels. They're bound to appear here sooner or later. There are plenty of good wargames out there that don't use said symbols. Anyone played computer chess with NATO pics? Or, if you're that pissed off, create your own mod.
@Webizen, yeah as I said, could be my old machine (3yrs old), yet many current games still run smooth, perhaps a multi-core processor would help more. Are there game settings I can employ specific to single tread processors?

[Tac2i]

@Agent S: my WinXP machine (now basically retired but still operational) is going on seven years old, is a single core Intel 2.8GHz processor. The only things I've upgraded over the years are the RAM (now at 4GB) and the vidcard. What is  your vidcard and how much memory does it have? Is your vidcard drivers current? Have you ran Windows Update recently to ensure your dotNet components are up to date, etc. They probably would be optional updates and not critical ones.

[Rosseau]

My hope--and this life, hope is all we got--is to see tweaks people want (Nato symbols), some creative scenarios, and Vic doing a few cool things with the AI, as he has alluded to. It's really a unique series. Just imagine if all we had to look forward to every year was the next iteration of Madden Football.

[DakaSha]

Thats what i fell this upgrade was comparable too...

[Krafty]

Never read the manual. I havent seen the ai not use anything ive gotten to yet on the tech tree. It could live it with building more artillery but thats just me abusing the poor ai. I dont have to stack up 50 artillery in a hex.

And the hex size is really whatever you want it to be, dependant on your imagination I guess. In the world war two scenario, heck I dont know, 50 miles I believe is what someone else said. I havent spent alot of time with it TBH. I have WITE and games like that for my world war two goodness. Generally im going straight to the Create Random Game button, setting up parameters i like, putting the AI to + or ++, calling up a buddy and playing some PBEM turns. If im feeling frisky Ill hit Edit on a map I like, change around some towns or balance the map a bit, change some rule settings, I like tripling the infantrys hit points to make divisions retreat more than die...or mess around with a modded "master file" that adds new units, or new game rules.

If youre looking for a good world war two simulation, this really isnt it. Hearts of Iron, or War in the East, something that at least has LEADERS if not traits for those leaders, real research, and specific unit types.




Oh apparently its aircraft carriers the ai doesnt use? Yeah wouldnt ever come across that since I generally dont do alot of water based maps. Hell you want bad naval AI check out...oh I dont know, every game ever made If you want a challenge on the water, you gotta play a human being...doesnt matter if its Civ5, HOI3, Warplan Pacific, or Silent Hunter 3...AI cant use ships.


And never before seen a nato symbol for a mortar division *shrug* apparently they have one...


As for the editor, really, if you find that clumsy or arcane, youre either new to gaming, or need to turn in your grognard card.

It doesnt crash first of all...my Hammer/World Craft editor for the Halflife Engine was updated like 2 weeks ago, after 15 years of development, and it still crashes on me.

Really the only thing the editor could do better is have an interface for actually MAKING the sprites...


But to each their own, you like what you like. No arguing with that.

[AlanBernardo]

ORIGINAL: Agent S

What Blows:

I don't mind all that much with the screens one has to go through. With time and experience, that gets easier.

I do know for one that the sounds are extremely annoying. All the ones that have so far gotten on my nerves I've gone into the sound directory and renamed them.

Overall, I like ATG. I didn't spend a lot of time with AT so ATG is pretty new to me. I'm still learning how things work, and that obviously will take some time. I simply create a random scenario, take both sides, and work on what I want to understand.

The manual is very bad, to speak honestly. It lacks an index, and in no way explains some of the things I'm trying to figure. I agree with the person who said that a great majority of manuals are pretty worthless. I find it best, as I said, to just jump in and see how things work.

I have a quad-core machine here which is about four years old. It has two gig of ram and a decent video card. I've experienced no scrolling problems at all. The game runs smoothly, and takes maybe 10 seconds to load up. The game, overall, is pretty polished.


Alan

[Krafty]

And it occurs to me, that if all these nato symbols exist, cant you just download a set of jpegs or something, then choose those pictures in that arcane editor to use as the unit pics? Seems pretty standard fare...

I play with NATO symbols on in Hearts of Iron...However I wouldnt want them in Advanced Tactics...to each their own. War in the East, I like the NATO symbols...cant stand them in Steel Panthers though...Sucks someones disatisfied with their purchase. Wish there was something someone could do about that...but alas...sometimes we dont get what we want. I for one am pissed I ever bought Shogun 2. ATG though has been worth every penny.

[DakaSha]

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Never read the manual. I havent seen the ai not use anything ive gotten to yet on the tech tree. It could live it with building more artillery but thats just me abusing the poor ai. I dont have to stack up 50 artillery in a hex.

And the hex size is really whatever you want it to be, dependant on your imagination I guess. In the world war two scenario, heck I dont know, 50 miles I believe is what someone else said. I havent spent alot of time with it TBH. I have WITE and games like that for my world war two goodness. Generally im going straight to the Create Random Game button, setting up parameters i like, putting the AI to + or ++, calling up a buddy and playing some PBEM turns. If im feeling frisky Ill hit Edit on a map I like, change around some towns or balance the map a bit, change some rule settings, I like tripling the infantrys hit points to make divisions retreat more than die...or mess around with a modded "master file" that adds new units, or new game rules.

If youre looking for a good world war two simulation, this really isnt it. Hearts of Iron, or War in the East, something that at least has LEADERS if not traits for those leaders, real research, and specific unit types.




Oh apparently its aircraft carriers the ai doesnt use? Yeah wouldnt ever come across that since I generally dont do alot of water based maps. Hell you want bad naval AI check out...oh I dont know, every game ever made If you want a challenge on the water, you gotta play a human being...doesnt matter if its Civ5, HOI3, Warplan Pacific, or Silent Hunter 3...AI cant use ships.


And never before seen a nato symbol for a mortar division *shrug* apparently they have one...


As for the editor, really, if you find that clumsy or arcane, youre either new to gaming, or need to turn in your grognard card.

It doesnt crash first of all...my Hammer/World Craft editor for the Halflife Engine was updated like 2 weeks ago, after 15 years of development, and it still crashes on me.

Really the only thing the editor could do better is have an interface for actually MAKING the sprites...


But to each their own, you like what you like. No arguing with that.

[8|]

[papajack]

NATO Symbol...hmm...can the game run without it ....?? does the unit get extra attacking bonus using this symbol ?  Oops..then better dont buy this game yet although is a damn fun and addictive game [:)] 

oh yeah..the AI never use all unit ...oh..i thought i need not to play against another human although I enjoy it so much ...

So don't buy this game because it does not have NATO symbol and the AI is not a human ...thanks for the great advice [:)]

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

@Agent S: my WinXP machine (now basically retired but still operational) is going on seven years old, is a single core Intel 2.8GHz processor. The only things I've upgraded over the years are the RAM (now at 4GB) and the vidcard. What is  your vidcard and how much memory does it have? Is your vidcard drivers current? Have you ran Windows Update recently to ensure your dotNet components are up to date, etc. They probably would be optional updates and not critical ones.

Hi AgentS,

Things I experienced in the past that might help:
* update your graphic card drivers
* play at a lower screen resolution

best regards,
Vic

[Grymme]

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

ORIGINAL: Grymme

Emir Agic. I wouldnt go by Steely Gints opinion solely.

And you shouldn't disregard it, either. Grymne is something of an AT cheerleader. Ask him how the AI handles aircraft carriers anyway.

Steely. Its not personal. And yes. I really like AT, and i have played it regularly since 2007. So i know it quite well. You seem to have aquired a real distaste for it in just a couple of days. That just makes your opinion less important because you havent really bothered to learn the system or inform yourself of it before purchasing it, and also because you are saying things that are just not true.

For the record, yes the AI does not handle aircraft carriers. I dont like it. There are things i dont like about AT(G) also.

There will always be one person or a couple who doesnt like a game and will let people know. That doesnt matter much. What matters is if there are serious problems with the game. There isnt.

[Arditi]

Well said Grymme.

[Scott_WAR]

I am disapponted with the AI not being able to use carriers as well. This is an upgrade,..and it still fails to fix one of the most basic of issues.....the AI being able to use the units in the game.

The last three games I have bought all have AI issues. One cheats and isnt restricted by silly things such as fog of war and unit sight range although the players are. The other,....well the AI is just flat out retarded in it,..And now this upgraded version which still falls short on one of the most fundamental parts of an AI,...being able to utilize all the units in the game.

Whats is going on? Have developers comletely forgotten how to make a decent,...complete, AI?

Aside from that though,.........this is a extremely good game.

[ernieschwitz]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I am disapponted with the AI not being able to use carriers as well. This is an upgrade,..and it still fails to fix one of the most basic of issues.....the AI being able to use the units in the game.

The last three games I have bought all have AI issues. One cheats and isnt restricted by silly things such as fog of war and unit sight range although the players are. The other,....well the AI is just flat out retarded in it,..And now this upgraded version which still falls short on one of the most fundamental parts of an AI,...being able to utilize all the units in the game.

Whats is going on? Have developers comletely forgotten how to make a decent,...complete, AI?

Aside from that though,.........this is a extremely good game.

All things being equal: Most AI´s cheat. Most ignorre FoW limitations, or do things you could not do as a player. AT/ATG at least tries to make an honest AI... although i am not completely fooled into thinking that the AI here doesn´t cheat in some way or another...

I still think this might be the best game out there... of its kind, indeed if there are any others of this kind, i´d like to know!

[SSFSX17]

Artificial Intelligence development is a non-trivial task, especially for a game in which all kinds of different units could theoretically be designed and exist. For the land and air theaters, the AI is amazingly good, and will eventually build the right kinds of things to counter what the player has. For example, while testing out my own mod, I built a lot of fortifications and obstacles, just to see what the AI would do about it. The AI eventually, after about 2 or 3 turns, started building flame tanks and bulldozers, and used them to great effect at critical points.

In theory, the AI could be directed to build aircraft for its carriers "just because." However, this would be little better than the AI not using aircraft carriers at all, except for direct naval battles.

I would much prefer for Vic to take his time on AI development and do it right, so that the AI would understand the concept of using carrier aircraft to do patrols, remote strikes on smaller fleets, and so on.

[DakaSha]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I am disapponted with the AI not being able to use carriers as well. This is an upgrade,..and it still fails to fix one of the most basic of issues.....the AI being able to use the units in the game.

The last three games I have bought all have AI issues. One cheats and isnt restricted by silly things such as fog of war and unit sight range although the players are. The other,....well the AI is just flat out retarded in it,..And now this upgraded version which still falls short on one of the most fundamental parts of an AI,...being able to utilize all the units in the game.

Whats is going on? Have developers comletely forgotten how to make a decent,...complete, AI?

Aside from that though,.........this is a extremely good game.

All things being equal: Most AI´s cheat. Most ignorre FoW limitations, or do things you could not do as a player. AT/ATG at least tries to make an honest AI... although i am not completely fooled into thinking that the AI here doesn´t cheat in some way or another...

Take a look at the AI behavior properties in the scenario editor.. It cheats
However it is much better then most AI's

[GrumpyMel]

Long time AT player here and admitedly biased as it's probably my favorate game of all time.

For the price, ATG was definately worth it (IMO). Although if you were expecting an entirely new game from AT...this isn't it. Essentialy it is exactly what it says it is, an updated and enhanced version of AT. The play and features are largely similar to classic AT but with a bunch of new and improved stuff thrown in.

AI's are really, really hard to do for games that are as open ended in thier design as this one is. As far as the type of game it is, it's a very good AI...but it definately does have problems handling certain situations well. That's not unexpected given all the different sorts of things that can pop up in an ATG random game .

The games that have stronger AI's are ones that tend to have a very limited and predictable set of variables/rules/moves to deal with. Chess is a good example. As far as wargames, the ones with the strongest AI's are ones that tend to depict set-peice scenerio's....and those are more "programmed opponent" style AI's...where the designer is basicaly hard-coding some strategy choices into the AI that fit the map/scenerio.

As far as open-ended games, AT's AI definately is definately better then most I've seen.... but it's definately not a match for a skilled/experienced player.

Mostly I derive most of my enjoyment from AT from playing PBEM scenerio's against other human opponents....and from designing scenerio's myself in the editor. If you aren't interested in those aspects of the game....you definately are missing out on a very large part of what the AT series has to offer. I'd still rate it a buy without that....but I definately wouldn't have gotten a tenth the play time I have out of it, if I were just interested in random games vs the AI.

[Krafty]

I cant believe no one has brought up that in AT, the AI didnt attack from multiple directions, now it does. It even retroactively will work with old save files. An Epic game my buddy and I are playing, we processed the last few turns using ATG, and low and behold, the AI is attacking us from several hexes! Woo!

Really though...the AI not using carriers is no big deal. I have never, and ive been playing PC games for almost 20 years, NEVER come across a decent naval AI in any game since the dawn of time.

If you want to be challenged, you have to play a human being. I cant believe after all these years people are still amazed that an AI fails at giving you a challenge without altering the rules in its favor.

Have you ever been challenged by the computer player? Really? In what game is this that the AI can actually beat a competent player who understands the rules.

[mgaffn1]

Felt the need to jump in and defend the AT Editor: The editor is not an easy tool to use, but it is the most comprehensive of any game editor I have used. Certainly there are many game editors that are easier, but they are usually very limited in what you can or can't do. Consider Photoshop - no one would call it an easy program to master, but it is a powerful tool that gives the user a high potential to do almost anything to an image.

[Krafty]

ORIGINAL: mgaffn1

Felt the need to jump in and defend the AT Editor: The editor is not an easy tool to use, but it is the most comprehensive of any game editor I have used. Certainly there are many game editors that are easier, but they are usually very limited in what you can or can't do. Consider Photoshop - no one would call it an easy program to master, but it is a powerful tool that gives the user a high potential to do almost anything to an image.

+1