Thinking of introducing Kempeitei "Regts" assigned to most Army HQ's. Being "Regt" they can be Split with the editor into component "Bn's". These units can then be used to perform backwater "security".
In my mod I have a bunch of extra garrison requirements in addition to the others at places like Cotabato, Phnom Penh etc. In my game with witpqs I've lost a bucketload of VP's by not having a nice small unit to stick into these bases to deal with "guerillas"
Thoughts?
Kempeitei / Garrison Units
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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treespider
- Posts: 5781
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Kempeitei / Garrison Units
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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DuckofTindalos
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- Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:53 pm
- Location: Denmark
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
Was there such a thing as a Kempeitei "regiment"? By that I mean, could they field distinct units like Soviet NKVD regiments or German security units?
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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treespider
- Posts: 5781
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: Edgewater, MD
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
From my brief online research -
My idea is to use the editor to create "Regts" broken down into "Bns" consisting of a handful of low experience and minimal firepower Sqds and Support devices
Wiki -
The Kempeitai (憲兵隊?, "Corps of Law Soldiers") was the military police arm of the Imperial Japanese Army from 1881 to 1945. It was not an English-style military police, but a French-style gendarmerie. Therefore, while it was institutionally part of the Imperial Japanese Army, it also discharged the functions of the military police for the Imperial Japanese Navy under the direction of the Admiralty Minister (although the IJN had its own much smaller Tokkeitai), those of the executive police under the direction of the Interior Minister, and those of the judicial police under the direction of the Justice Minister. A member of the corps was called a kempei.[1]
Organization
The Kempeitai maintained a headquarters in each relevant Area Army, commanded by a Shosho (Major General) with a Taisa (Colonel) as Executive Officer and comprising two or three field offices, commanded by a Chusa (Lieutenant Colonel) and with a Shosa (Major) as executive officer and each with approximately 375 personnel.
The field office in turn was divided into 65-man sections called 'buntai'. Each was commanded by a Tai-i (Captain) with a Chu-i (1st Lieutenant) as his Executive Officer and had 65 other troops. The buntai were further divided into detachments called bunkentai, commanded by a Sho-i (2nd Lieutenant) with a Junshikan (Warrant Officer) as Executive Officer and 20 other troops. Each detachment contained three squads: a police squad or keimu han, an administration squad or naikin han, and a special duties squad or Tokumu han.
Kempeitai Auxiliary units consisting of regional ethnic forces were organized in occupied areas. Troops supplemented the Kempeitai and were considered part of the organization but were limited to the rank of Shocho (Sergeant Major).
The Kempeitai had 315 officers and 6000 enlisted men by 1937. These were the members of the known, public forces. Allies estimated that by the end of World War II, there were at least 75,000 members of the Kempeitai, figuring in undercover personnel and so on. This number might be even higher.
Wartime mission
The Kempeitai was responsible for the following:
Travel permits
Labor recruitment
Counterintelligence and counter-propaganda (run by the Tokko-Kempeitai as 'anti-ideological work')
Supply requisitioning and rationing
Psychological operations and propaganda
Rear area security
And from the HyperWar sight with the japanese handbook -
The military police take orders from different authorities according to the areas in which they are stationed. For example, in Japan during peacetime, they were responsible to the Minister of War for their normal military duties, to the Minister of Home Affairs insofar as they assisted the civil police, and to the Minister of Justice for duties connected with law administration. In fortress zones they come under the command of the fortress commanders. In Manchuria, Korea, and Formosa, although they are primarily responsible to the commanders-in-chief, they also may be called upon to assist the local civilian authorities. In all areas their broad duties are the surveillance of military discipline, the enforcement of security, the protection of vital military zones, the execution of conscription laws, and the detection of crime among soldiers. In combat areas and occupied areas additional duties have been allotted to them (see par. 7).
...
c. Numbered field military-police units. Numbered field military-police units have been identified. These units probably are based at important headquarters (one has been identified atRabaul, the headquarters of the area army in charge of operations in the Solomons-Bismarcks area) and are responsible for specified geographic sections. It seems likely that these units provide sections not only for duty with divisions and other field units but also for the enforcement of discipline in the base areas. Small military-police sections normally appear to accompany divisions operating in the field.
...
7. MILITARY POLICE DUTIES IN THE FIELD. In addition to the normal military and field security police duties, such as the issue of travel permits, the detection and arrest of fifth columnists, and the scotching of subversive rumors, field military-police sections are assigned various duties connected with the natives in the occupied areas and may also engage in combat. In the Pacific area they are responsible for pacifying hostile natives and for settling disputes between the natives and Japanese soldiers, as well as for requisitioning native foods and supplies. They also are charged with the recruitment of native labor and the organization of native espionage nets operating in and behind Allied lines. According to reports, the military police were given charge of a native force in New Guinea both for reconnaissance purposes and in order to harass the enemy. An order to the Lae military-police commander directed him, in addition to continuing his present duties, to "complete the training of the native 'army' and form a roving defense of the left bank of the Markham river. He will send the native 'army' forward in the right bank section and will be responsible for directing the harassing of the enemy's rear."
My idea is to use the editor to create "Regts" broken down into "Bns" consisting of a handful of low experience and minimal firepower Sqds and Support devices
Wiki -
The Kempeitai (憲兵隊?, "Corps of Law Soldiers") was the military police arm of the Imperial Japanese Army from 1881 to 1945. It was not an English-style military police, but a French-style gendarmerie. Therefore, while it was institutionally part of the Imperial Japanese Army, it also discharged the functions of the military police for the Imperial Japanese Navy under the direction of the Admiralty Minister (although the IJN had its own much smaller Tokkeitai), those of the executive police under the direction of the Interior Minister, and those of the judicial police under the direction of the Justice Minister. A member of the corps was called a kempei.[1]
Organization
The Kempeitai maintained a headquarters in each relevant Area Army, commanded by a Shosho (Major General) with a Taisa (Colonel) as Executive Officer and comprising two or three field offices, commanded by a Chusa (Lieutenant Colonel) and with a Shosa (Major) as executive officer and each with approximately 375 personnel.
The field office in turn was divided into 65-man sections called 'buntai'. Each was commanded by a Tai-i (Captain) with a Chu-i (1st Lieutenant) as his Executive Officer and had 65 other troops. The buntai were further divided into detachments called bunkentai, commanded by a Sho-i (2nd Lieutenant) with a Junshikan (Warrant Officer) as Executive Officer and 20 other troops. Each detachment contained three squads: a police squad or keimu han, an administration squad or naikin han, and a special duties squad or Tokumu han.
Kempeitai Auxiliary units consisting of regional ethnic forces were organized in occupied areas. Troops supplemented the Kempeitai and were considered part of the organization but were limited to the rank of Shocho (Sergeant Major).
The Kempeitai had 315 officers and 6000 enlisted men by 1937. These were the members of the known, public forces. Allies estimated that by the end of World War II, there were at least 75,000 members of the Kempeitai, figuring in undercover personnel and so on. This number might be even higher.
Wartime mission
The Kempeitai was responsible for the following:
Travel permits
Labor recruitment
Counterintelligence and counter-propaganda (run by the Tokko-Kempeitai as 'anti-ideological work')
Supply requisitioning and rationing
Psychological operations and propaganda
Rear area security
And from the HyperWar sight with the japanese handbook -
The military police take orders from different authorities according to the areas in which they are stationed. For example, in Japan during peacetime, they were responsible to the Minister of War for their normal military duties, to the Minister of Home Affairs insofar as they assisted the civil police, and to the Minister of Justice for duties connected with law administration. In fortress zones they come under the command of the fortress commanders. In Manchuria, Korea, and Formosa, although they are primarily responsible to the commanders-in-chief, they also may be called upon to assist the local civilian authorities. In all areas their broad duties are the surveillance of military discipline, the enforcement of security, the protection of vital military zones, the execution of conscription laws, and the detection of crime among soldiers. In combat areas and occupied areas additional duties have been allotted to them (see par. 7).
...
c. Numbered field military-police units. Numbered field military-police units have been identified. These units probably are based at important headquarters (one has been identified atRabaul, the headquarters of the area army in charge of operations in the Solomons-Bismarcks area) and are responsible for specified geographic sections. It seems likely that these units provide sections not only for duty with divisions and other field units but also for the enforcement of discipline in the base areas. Small military-police sections normally appear to accompany divisions operating in the field.
...
7. MILITARY POLICE DUTIES IN THE FIELD. In addition to the normal military and field security police duties, such as the issue of travel permits, the detection and arrest of fifth columnists, and the scotching of subversive rumors, field military-police sections are assigned various duties connected with the natives in the occupied areas and may also engage in combat. In the Pacific area they are responsible for pacifying hostile natives and for settling disputes between the natives and Japanese soldiers, as well as for requisitioning native foods and supplies. They also are charged with the recruitment of native labor and the organization of native espionage nets operating in and behind Allied lines. According to reports, the military police were given charge of a native force in New Guinea both for reconnaissance purposes and in order to harass the enemy. An order to the Lae military-police commander directed him, in addition to continuing his present duties, to "complete the training of the native 'army' and form a roving defense of the left bank of the Markham river. He will send the native 'army' forward in the right bank section and will be responsible for directing the harassing of the enemy's rear."
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
ORIGINAL: treespider
Thinking of introducing Kempeitei "Regts" assigned to most Army HQ's. Being "Regt" they can be Split with the editor into component "Bn's". These units can then be used to perform backwater "security".
In my mod I have a bunch of extra garrison requirements in addition to the others at places like Cotabato, Phnom Penh etc. In my game with witpqs I've lost a bucketload of VP's by not having a nice small unit to stick into these bases to deal with "guerillas"
Thoughts?
An alternative is reduce or eliminate the garrison requirement.
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
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treespider
- Posts: 5781
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: Edgewater, MD
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: treespider
Thinking of introducing Kempeitei "Regts" assigned to most Army HQ's. Being "Regt" they can be Split with the editor into component "Bn's". These units can then be used to perform backwater "security".
In my mod I have a bunch of extra garrison requirements in addition to the others at places like Cotabato, Phnom Penh etc. In my game with witpqs I've lost a bucketload of VP's by not having a nice small unit to stick into these bases to deal with "guerillas"
Thoughts?
An alternative is reduce or eliminate the garrison requirement.
Sacrilege...think of them as more things for the Japanese merchant fleet to feed and move around.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
- Posts: 5781
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: Edgewater, MD
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
Page 92 of Madej has a list of the units:
Burma Area Army
Southern Army 1
Southern Army 2
Southern Army 3
14 Area Army
14 Army
16 Army
17 Army
18 Army
25 Army
29 Army
37 Army
1 Field
2 Field
3 Field
4 Field
5 Field
6 Field
8 Field
10 Field
11 Field
Formosa
Korea
Kwantung
S. China
Burma Area Army
Southern Army 1
Southern Army 2
Southern Army 3
14 Area Army
14 Army
16 Army
17 Army
18 Army
25 Army
29 Army
37 Army
1 Field
2 Field
3 Field
4 Field
5 Field
6 Field
8 Field
10 Field
11 Field
Formosa
Korea
Kwantung
S. China
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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Local Yokel
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:55 pm
- Location: Somerset, U.K.
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
The steady leak of 'low garrison' VP's is tiresome, especially when the units available for garrison duties can't be broken down into appropriately small sub-units to perform the task.
If the premise underlying the increased garrison requirement is to make China more of a morass for Japan then I have no objection to it in principle.
However, I question whether the change is justified by the results. What seems to have happened is that you have been unable to meet the garrison commitment, lost a stack of VP's as a result, and now want to cure this on the Japanese side by introducing another raft of low value units. More complexity in a game that already tends towards an excess of complexity in order to simulate guerilla warfare never likely to have a decisive effect. And all this because in the game, unlike real life, you can't tell some lowly subaltern to take a company of men to secure the railway at Wuflungdung.
I think the way you've tied the Kwantung Army to Manchukuo by use of signal units is brilliant. In this case, I just think there must be some better way of turning China into the tar baby.
If the premise underlying the increased garrison requirement is to make China more of a morass for Japan then I have no objection to it in principle.
However, I question whether the change is justified by the results. What seems to have happened is that you have been unable to meet the garrison commitment, lost a stack of VP's as a result, and now want to cure this on the Japanese side by introducing another raft of low value units. More complexity in a game that already tends towards an excess of complexity in order to simulate guerilla warfare never likely to have a decisive effect. And all this because in the game, unlike real life, you can't tell some lowly subaltern to take a company of men to secure the railway at Wuflungdung.
I think the way you've tied the Kwantung Army to Manchukuo by use of signal units is brilliant. In this case, I just think there must be some better way of turning China into the tar baby.
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treespider
- Posts: 5781
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: Edgewater, MD
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
ORIGINAL: Local Yokel
The steady leak of 'low garrison' VP's is tiresome, especially when the units available for garrison duties can't be broken down into appropriately small sub-units to perform the task.
If the premise underlying the increased garrison requirement is to make China more of a morass for Japan then I have no objection to it in principle.
However, I question whether the change is justified by the results. What seems to have happened is that you have been unable to meet the garrison commitment, lost a stack of VP's as a result, and now want to cure this on the Japanese side by introducing another raft of low value units. More complexity in a game that already tends towards an excess of complexity in order to simulate guerilla warfare never likely to have a decisive effect. And all this because in the game, unlike real life, you can't tell some lowly subaltern to take a company of men to secure the railway at Wuflungdung.
I think the way you've tied the Kwantung Army to Manchukuo by use of signal units is brilliant. In this case, I just think there must be some better way of turning China into the tar baby.
Actually its not China...China is working for what I wanted to happen to the Japanese. The Chinese may have a little too much flexibility...but time will tell.
The issue is the other locales in the SRA/Phillippines/Burma etc that have the small garrison requirements. I like the idea of creating the garrison requirements and providing a small force to garrison the bases rather than simply ignoring them or eliminating the garrison requirement altogether. Gives the WuflungPu Maru a reason to transport supply to Wuflungdu.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
I don't care about VP at all, but I do honor garrison requirements. As a scenario designer I know that Treespider has to tweak that stuff for people who play his mod and who do care about VP. For me, and for him in our game, the only consequence when you miss a garrison requirement is the darn guerrilla (or is it gorilla? [:D]) attacks.
On China, so far I think it's good. The Chinese can move around but in practical terms they are limited to duties to keep the IJA from going wild. I do intend to see how creative I can get in stressing that so we get a good test. I figure the objective in China is to have it be pretty much a stalemate unless one side either makes a brilliant move that the other side misses, or a horrible mistake that the other side seizes upon. Until, of course, one side or the other can and does bring in more resources to up the ante.
On China, so far I think it's good. The Chinese can move around but in practical terms they are limited to duties to keep the IJA from going wild. I do intend to see how creative I can get in stressing that so we get a good test. I figure the objective in China is to have it be pretty much a stalemate unless one side either makes a brilliant move that the other side misses, or a horrible mistake that the other side seizes upon. Until, of course, one side or the other can and does bring in more resources to up the ante.
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
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Local Yokel
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:55 pm
- Location: Somerset, U.K.
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
Yes, I suppose the VP consequences don't matter to me either (unless I were to be playing for auto-victory - which I don't). Actually, the more serious consequence is the damage done to under-garrisoned bases, particularly in scenarios such as this with greatly reduced engineering capabilities. I'm running a Babes Lite game in which Foochow changed hands twice. Following my recapture of it for Japan, I left it empty, and it accumulated 100 port damage and 99 runway damage, but, strangely, only 2 airfield services damage. Can't see that getting repaired until Mao takes a hand.
The need to garrison places other than China had not really occurred to me, but I can certainly see the rationale for this in the Philippines. Much less so in Java and Sumatra, where Imamura secured the cooperation of Sukarno and others wishing to be rid of the Dutch colonial regime. Perhaps there should be a range of PETA units that activate on Java and Sumatra and fulfil a pro-Japanese garrison role?
The need to garrison places other than China had not really occurred to me, but I can certainly see the rationale for this in the Philippines. Much less so in Java and Sumatra, where Imamura secured the cooperation of Sukarno and others wishing to be rid of the Dutch colonial regime. Perhaps there should be a range of PETA units that activate on Java and Sumatra and fulfil a pro-Japanese garrison role?
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topeverest
- Posts: 3381
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 am
- Location: Houston, TX - USA
RE: Kempeitei / Garrison Units
I think certain bases require garrisons, but I like fewer bases with higher garrisons rather than more bases with lower garrisons. The whole thing gets kinda muddy, because you can take the position of abstracting the force and deleting available forces or reducing replacements.
I've tried both extremes in some private designs, and I like fewer garrison requirements with lower replacements better than restriction or bountiful garrisons.
I've even centemplated HR nationwide garrisons and graduated garrisons over time / conditions to allow for choice of unit assignments.
One thing is certain, you will make some happy, some indifferent, and some irate no matter what you choose.
I've tried both extremes in some private designs, and I like fewer garrison requirements with lower replacements better than restriction or bountiful garrisons.
I've even centemplated HR nationwide garrisons and graduated garrisons over time / conditions to allow for choice of unit assignments.
One thing is certain, you will make some happy, some indifferent, and some irate no matter what you choose.
Andy M