43' Scenario XXXXVIII Panzer Corps has the incorrect starting Leader

[therage]

For the start of the 1943 Scenario, the XXXXVIII Panzer Corps has the incorrect starting leader.

The commander on July 4, 1943 should be Otto von Knobelsdorff.

In v1.03, the commander is Dietrich von Choltitz.

If this is going to be addressed on v1.04 please disregard.

[Omat]

Hello

I would say von Choltitz is correct

30. November 1942 General der Panzertruppen Otto von Knobelsdorff

6. Mai 1943 General der Infanterie Dietrich von Choltitz

30. August 1943 General der Panzertruppen Otto von Knobelsdorff

Source:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... orps-R.htm

Omat

[therage]

Interesting - I have several sources that point to the fact that von Knobelsdorff was in command of XXXXVIII Panzer Corps during the battle of Kursk and none of them mention von Choltitz during the battle as playing any role in the action.

The below sources clearly indicate that von Knobelsdorff commanded the XXXXVIII Panzer Corps at Kursk.

-The Battle of Kursk, by David Glantz and Jonathan House

-Hitler's Panzer Armies on the Eastern Front, by Robert Kirchubel

-Kursk 1943: The Greatest Tank Battle Ever Fought, by Kathryn Barbier



What is the source for the URL, I could not find it anywhere on their link, but I will admit my German is not the best?

[Omat]

Hello

When I eyeball the site than I seems that they use primary literature which you can find here:

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/benutzung/ze ... ex.html.en

sometimes I see references which you can find here

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/

They also uses secondry literature but Glantz at el not for this topic.

When I look at this topic It seems that von Choltitz was in that time period only m.d.f.B (mit der Führung beauftragt). So mybe therefore this little confusion. Otto von Knobelsdorff was very often diseased 42-43

Omat

[therage]

Hello,

If I had access to the operational orders for Panzer Corp XXXXVIII for Operation Citadel, I would prove to you that von Knobelsdorff was in command. Yes, I agree, von Knobelsdorff commanded Pz Corp XXXXVIII periodically in 1942 and 1943, but von Choltitz was the deputy commander for Pz Corp XXXXVIII and he is not mentioned as commanding during Operation Citadel, when the '43 Scenario starts in this game.

The secondary sources that I referred to are all referring directly to the German archives and the surviving maps/notes/and operations orders from 4. Panzer Armee and Pz Corp XXXXVIII. They all repeatedly refer to von Knobelsdorff as the commander for Pz Corp XXXXVIII during Operation Citadel.

I do not see how you can discount some well regarded historians, specifically experts on the battle of Kursk. While the site that you mentioned has some good information and is generally correct - I would not use it to disprove reality. The site: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de is yet another collection of secondary sources complied by someone that makes this his hobby. Show me a primary source or a credible secondary source that mentions von Choltitz commanding during Citadel, I have not seen one.

therage

[Omat]

It is dolefully that some a couple of members to tend write in a offensive and lightly rude way. I wanted only to be polite. You where new here and nobody answers your thread and I don’t wanted you to leave you alone with a disappointing feeling to receive no consideration as a “newbie”.
Secondly you don’t understand German good and wanted the source of the site. I don’t think it is important who is the person or group which own the site only if the information is correct and if they using good sources. So I look around (I wrote when I eyeball the site than ) for you...as I wrote what THEY (NOT I!) uses as sources so that you can get a feeling about it.
I don’t think it is a very good attribute, which can cause among others in forums ill-feelings, to transform a simple information (they using not Glants for this topic) into a allegation (e.g that I “discount some well regarded historians “). These is a big difference!
Which source you prefer and why is an other topic.
The owner of this Forum a appreciate certain social graces which we all should attempt to observe.

When I occasion resentment I feel deeply sorry and in a way I regret to have you answered.... Sorry

Omat

P.S.: For me this topic is closed.