Stalin's in the gulag, I'm in charge! II - vs 2ndACR (Axis)

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

76mm, maybe I am underestimating what the Germans can do when an utter competent player is in charge [:)] But maybe you are underestimating what the zillions of Soviet counters can do. These MANY forces can be put to very good use.

I do not think I am that good (I only played like 50 PBEM turns, that's not a lot). And of course I don't think 2ndACR is an utter incompetent, not even close. We are basically playing on the same league so I have to conclude that yes, your most vital places CAN be defended. But you have to concentrate your forces. As I already said somewhere the Germans are ALREADY concentrating their forces (the Panzer Armies: that's a lot of mobility and fire power in x place). It would be idiotic to not do the same (as the Soviet). It would be like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.

I mean, the Soviets are not that doomed during the Blitzkrieg. If they were I should agree with those who defend the "German Supermen" thing.

Don't sell yourself short - you are playing a great game. At the very worst it is an extremely fun AAR to read.

After finally having the game for a few days, I have to say that there is a lot to learn. Trying the 41 GC as the Soviets, I find that even though I apparently have many forces, it is extremely easy to overcommit in one sector and therefore have too little in the important sector.

So far I think that that is the biggest lesson that a Soviet player has to learn: Exactly how little you can put in directly in front of the German advance so that you have enough forces to dig defensive lines in advance and to focus your hordes where they are needed. It was quite eye opening, when I realised I could take three or so full armies from the southern sector - where the AI is advancing extremely slowly - and transport them all to Leningrad within two turns. Though it did completely kill any chance of having a coherent OOB - I try to at least have my armies together, but keeping those armies in the fronts they are supposed to bein is close to impossible so far.

Anyway, enough of such "analysis" and "thinking" and "learning" - I want to see the bears chasing the girl with the fish again! [:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

DTurtle, the Soviets did exactly that: send Stavka reserve armies to the most important sector (Moscow approaches that is). It's simply what I did on my TWO games (I did not need to invent anything: just do what the Soviets did, except the big trapped pockets LOL). I'm possibly the only one who sent the 16 army (in Ukraine) to the center (on my two games). On this game this army managed to cut the AGC panzers off on turn 2, 3 and 4, if I remember correctly. In other words, they managed to slow the enemy down: and that was their mission whilst the armies that should cover the Dnper were arriving...

The Russian Civil War was also an inspiration (to me). This war was ALL about CONSTANTLY moving reserves from front A to B, then C, and then A again. They [the Soviets] always concentrated their forces in the most important strategic area. And therefore weakened the other fronts.

[2ndACR]

I have not read but for all you interested, I have emailed Tillius that 1.04 is out and we can upgrade and start the winter.

[TulliusDetritus]

Alright, let the massac... er game continue [8D]

By the way, I will tell 2ndACR that he can read (if he wants) this AAR. At least until page 18 (when I started talking about the blizzard strategy, and I am not sure this will be my strategy). Not a lot of Top Secrets. Right now he has to know I concentrate my forces, etc. etc. So no big deal.

In other words, if you see his name on this AAR, it's because I allowed him to visit this place [:)]

[Aurelian]

Now, you know how Beria feels about secrets......

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Now, you know how Beria feels about secrets......

Yes, I will need to watch my back... Beria's thugs... [8D]

[TulliusDetritus]

And a strategic issue: my defensive campaign during 1942.

Yes, I have to think about that. In the real war, the Soviets were defending a big area behind their front line. Even in 1943 they were defending areas 300 km behind the front (I have the data on one book).

Soooo. I have two choices: Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades. I want to create defensive lines behind the front. Multiple lines in critical areas: Moscow and Leningrad. Unlike many players I think the FRs are VERY useful. To me a fort level >= 2, 3 or 4 is far better than a fort level 0 [;)] So, if my opponent pushes me in the '42 campaign I want to have prepared defensive lines...

I think I won't be using the infantry brigades during the blizzard. They should be digging to prepare these defensive lines (if not all, most of them). Same thing with FRs. I guess I'll be creating minimum 2 or 3 every turn.

Saving APS to create Cavalry Cops is an a posteriori thinking [;)] You do that because you know there will be a successful blizzard offensive. But in the real war the Soviets did not know that. They had to think about their defensive lines... about surviving. Therefore I will save APS to create these lines.

[TulliusDetritus]

My command. As you can see, I was not ignoring the southern part of the map. When I said I would be concentrating my forces in the north and center this did not mean there would be 0 units in the south! Yes, I brought many units to annihilate the two german divisions but most of them are still directly attached to STAVKA HQ. Leningrad HQ has perhaps an excess of forces, which I will be possibly diverting to other fronts.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And a strategic issue: my defensive campaign during 1942.

Soooo. I have two choices: Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades. I want to create defensive lines behind the front. Multiple lines in critical areas: Moscow and Leningrad. Unlike many players I think the FRs are VERY useful. To me a fort level >= 2, 3 or 4 is far better than a fort level 0 [;)] So, if my opponent pushes me in the '42 campaign I want to have prepared defensive lines...

I think I won't be using the infantry brigades during the blizzard. They should be digging to prepare these defensive lines (if not all, most of them). Same thing with FRs. I guess I'll be creating minimum 2 or 3 every turn.

Just another opinion, worth no more than most other opinions and probably worth less:

1) Fortified regions are BAD NEWS for the Russians for the following reasons
1a. they are armament hogs and you never have enough armaments (and if you do build more artillery or AT guns)
1b. they are not even good speed bumbs as defensive positions
1c) they build very slowly compared to lots of construction brigades in a nearby HQ

2) Unless you have consolidated brigades in at some point, you should have an adequate number of inf brigades. But if you need to build more, build divisions and brigades in a 2/1 ratio ( which happens to be the ratio to convert to rifle corps when it's time for your next offensive)

3) Be cautious in converting to rifle corps: they are great for creating powerful stacks, but that is for after you crush the 42 Summer Offensive. Until then they just suck divisions and brigades out of your carpet.

4) Be very cautious about creating tank corps:
4a) A tank brigade is a nice sacrifice to cut off a panzer division but a tank corps must be conserved
4b) A tank corps takes a LOT more trucks than three tank brigades; it doesn't take many losses added to a few conversions to drop you into the truck shortage numbers

[PeeDeeAitch]

PDH's thoughts for the Soviets:

1) Never build corps, ever. Especially when playing me.

2) Carpet defenses suck. Stick to a single linear defense. Especially when playing me.

3) Disband all your cavalry before winter. Especially when playing me.

Follow these rules and the game will be much more enjoyable!

[cookie monster]

Fortified Regions used to be poor prior to this patch.

I bug reported that attaching construction units did not make any difference to fort building speed.

Now that it's fixed they might be one of the best units for building forts in game, as long as you attach construction units.

We need fresh testing of the new patches effect unfortunately.

[Klydon]

My two cents on Russian unit creation is to try to avoid it during the period of time that you get your units back for "free". (through October I think). Before that, you are paying 4 x the normal cost. A infantry brigade is absolutely not worth 20 points and a fortified zone is not worth 16 points. Fortified zones for the Russians have a construction value of around 14 while brigades have around 10. That is not a big enough difference imo to offset the disadvantages of the fortification and also with the new fortification rules, you really need the unit attached to a good commander if you are trying to dig in hard over level 2 fortifications.

As far as creating cav corps as a offensive unit for the blizzard, I have to disagree. They immediately become some of your strongest units period. They are also the only units the Russians have that can have support units directly assigned to them for awhile, making them even tougher. That they happen to be mobile is just a big plus, but either way, you can look to use them to stop German attacks, etc.

[TulliusDetritus]

Well, to me the Fortified Regions are ONLY diggers, not fighters. The truth is that IF I want to have defensive lines behind my front I need units on these hexes or no one will be doing that job. Big fighting units (divisions): no, they are needed to either fight the enemy or form the Stavka Reserve Armies I'm planning for 1942. The Infantry brigades, soon or later I will disband them and form divisions. So if I want diggers I will need FRs.

They need armaments? Ok. As I see it, forming these defensive lines is prioritary to me. I saved Moscow and Leningrad on 1941 but I want to make sure I save them on 1942 as well. If I survive that part then I might disband the FRs.

What I don't want is this scenario: everyone is in the front line. 2ndACR starts an offensive on 1942 and I am forced to pull back... and there is NOTHING behind, no fortified places. NO thanks [:)]

During the war this was the depth of the Soviet various defences [;)]

Moscow area (july '41): between 250 and 400 km...
Leningrad (1941): between 100 and 120 km...
Summer 1942: between 500 and 600 km [that's a LOT]...
Summer 1943: between 300 and 350 km...

In the game, IF you want to have these defensive positions you NEED Fortified Regions (aka diggers, because in fact it's ALL I want: guys with shovels). It's yes or yes [;)] The fighting units are needed to contain the enemy... So either you create FRs or you don't have defensive positions behind your front line...

Conclusion: I will do exactly like the Soviets and build defensive lines behind the fronts. At least until 1943.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

PDH's thoughts for the Soviets:

1) Never build corps, ever. Especially when playing me.

2) Carpet defenses suck. Stick to a single linear defense. Especially when playing me.

3) Disband all your cavalry before winter. Especially when playing me.

Follow these rules and the game will be much more enjoyable!

Amen to number 2. And don't triple stack, either!

Keep up the entertaining AAR, TD. Don't let the guy get to you.[:)]

[TulliusDetritus]

As for the other issues, I really haven't thought yet about Infantry and Tank Corps [:)] On 1942 I will need to think about that. I guess the first such Corps will mostly be attached to Stavka and then sent to strategically important areas, where they might make some difference.

I was convinced to create Cavalry Corps though, which I will be doing [&o]

Senno, I think PDH was being satiric [:D] He gave an excellent tip (I can't remember where): he fears a carpet if the first line is composed of 2 or 3 units-stacks. As opposed to a huge carpet (let's say a depth of five hexes) but with only 1 unit per hex...

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


Senno, I think PDH was being satiric [:D] He gave an excellent tip (I can't remember where): he fears a carpet if the first line is composed of 2 or 3 units-stacks. As opposed to a huge carpet (let's say a depth of five hexes) but with only 1 unit per hex...

So was I.[:)]

[PeeDeeAitch]

I always spill petrol from the panzers on the thin carpets.

[76mm]

I'm with TD on this one, I use FZs quite a bit, at least once their cost drops to 4. I also build lots of brigades during the winter, since they are cheap (5), can dig fairly well, and can later be combined into divisions.

I've been looking at the construction values of FZs vs brigades. Most of the ready brigades seem to top out at a construction value of 8-9, some hit 11 or so. FZs seem to keep improving over time, I noticed one (one of the first created) with an FZ of over 30! And this was before we could (effectively) attach a RRCB to an FZ for additional digging power. I've also previously noted that sometimes you want someone to start digging right now (ie, FZ), not in the several turns it could take you to move a brigade to the location.

[TulliusDetritus]

[center]Turn 24[/center]
[center]27 november 1941[/center]

Blizzard will here on next turn. I have decided to mass all the divisions in the frontline, I mean NO big units behind. The Winter Offensive is supposed to be a golden opportunity that you can't miss, even if I will be using Big Anorak's rule.

[center][/center]

[TulliusDetritus]

As I said, I am going to prepare my '42 defensive campaign. Just in case. In the center this turn I have started 3 defensive lines: a mix of Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades.