Ports on map

[Gendarme]

Just a question to whomever can answer:

I've been looking at screenshots from the map for Matrix Wif and noticed some differences from paper Wif regarding placement of ports.

For example, on the old Wif Pacific map, Guadalcanal is a minor port on the Coral Sea sea zone, but in Matrix Wif, it looks to be a port on Solomons sea zone.

Also, both ports in the New Herbrides (Espiritu Santo and Port Vila) connect to multiple sea zones, Espiritu Santo connecting to Solomons and Coral sea zones, and Port Vila connecting to the above sea zones plus New Zealand coast. On the Matrix Wif map of the region, this doesn't appear to be so; Espiritu Santo only connects to Solomons, and Port Vila's port, I can't tell which sea zone it's supposed to be on because it lies in the middle of the island. Is this just a fluke of whatever program was used to create the map for Matrix Wif, and the computer will know those ports to be adjacent to the sea zones they are supposed to be per the paper Wif map?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

[Extraneous]

If you are looking at: MwiF Map Review - Froonp - Post#: 74


And to get the name of the sea zones are cross-referencing it with: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - Orm – Post#: 440

I would have to agree that Guadalcanal seams to be in “The Solomons” sea zone.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Gendarme


Just a question to whomever can answer:

I've been looking at screenshots from the map for Matrix Wif and noticed some differences from paper Wif regarding placement of ports.

For example, on the old Wif Pacific map, Guadalcanal is a minor port on the Coral Sea sea zone, but in Matrix Wif, it looks to be a port on Solomons sea zone.

Also, both ports in the New Herbrides (Espiritu Santo and Port Vila) connect to multiple sea zones, Espiritu Santo connecting to Solomons and Coral sea zones, and Port Vila connecting to the above sea zones plus New Zealand coast. On the Matrix Wif map of the region, this doesn't appear to be so; Espiritu Santo only connects to Solomons, and Port Vila's port, I can't tell which sea zone it's supposed to be on because it lies in the middle of the island. Is this just a fluke of whatever program was used to create the map for Matrix Wif, and the computer will know those ports to be adjacent to the sea zones they are supposed to be per the paper Wif map?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

I am not sure what you saw. Here is the current MWIF map of the area you asked about. It is the same as the WIF FE maps in regard to ports and their adjacent sea areas.



EDIT: Perhaps you are reading too much into the placement of the port icon within the hex. It is the entire hex which posseses a port in WIF (both WIF Final Edition and MWIF), not just the blue sea section that the port icon 'touches'.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Gendarme


Just a question to whomever can answer:

I've been looking at screenshots from the map for Matrix Wif and noticed some differences from paper Wif regarding placement of ports.

For example, on the old Wif Pacific map, Guadalcanal is a minor port on the Coral Sea sea zone, but in Matrix Wif, it looks to be a port on Solomons sea zone.

Also, both ports in the New Herbrides (Espiritu Santo and Port Vila) connect to multiple sea zones, Espiritu Santo connecting to Solomons and Coral sea zones, and Port Vila connecting to the above sea zones plus New Zealand coast. On the Matrix Wif map of the region, this doesn't appear to be so; Espiritu Santo only connects to Solomons, and Port Vila's port, I can't tell which sea zone it's supposed to be on because it lies in the middle of the island. Is this just a fluke of whatever program was used to create the map for Matrix Wif, and the computer will know those ports to be adjacent to the sea zones they are supposed to be per the paper Wif map?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

I think that the confusion comes from the fact that you seems to believe that the port symbol is important as to know to which sea area it connects.
It is not.
What is important is the hex that contains the port, and which sea areas that hex connects to.

For example, Port Vila on the screen shot above connects to 3 Sea areas, because the hex it is in connects to 3 sea areas. Where the port symbol is within the hex don't matters.

If you have this confusion in WiF FE, you must be one of those people that believe that Batavia only connect to 1 Sea area, aren't you ? Well, it connects to 2 sea areas.

[Gendarme]

Never had trouble with Batavia, Patrice. I think on the Wif maps, I'm taking how the blue sea zone dividing line connects with a port or hex too literally. On the Wif maps, the blue lines connect directly to the ports; on the Matrix Wif maps, some stop short. No big deal, still love the new maps and can't wait to play the game.

But... one more question. Havana is a port hex that connects to both the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Is Havana a hex that can be invaded from the Caribbean, or only from the Gulf of Mexico? I know Havana can be invaded because of the all-sea hexsides, but from where???

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Gendarme


But... one more question. Havana is a port hex that connects to both the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Is Havana a hex that can be invaded from the Caribbean, or only from the Gulf of Mexico? I know Havana can be invaded because of the all-sea hexsides, but from where???

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

Havanna can be invaded from both sea areas.

In MWIF the text for the hex tells you from which sea areas it can be invaded. If the hex touch a sea area but can't be invaded from it MWIF writes "no invasion" as a comment on that sea area.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Gendarme


But... one more question. Havana is a port hex that connects to both the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Is Havana a hex that can be invaded from the Caribbean, or only from the Gulf of Mexico? I know Havana can be invaded because of the all-sea hexsides, but from where???

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

Havanna can be invaded from both sea areas.

In MWIF the text for the hex tells you from which sea areas it can be invaded. If the hex touch a sea area but can't be invaded from it MWIF writes "no invasion" as a comment on that sea area.

then this is a bug ... as I see it, it can only be invaded from Gulf of Mexico

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

ORIGINAL: Orm

Havanna can be invaded from both sea areas.

In MWIF the text for the hex tells you from which sea areas it can be invaded. If the hex touch a sea area but can't be invaded from it MWIF writes "no invasion" as a comment on that sea area.

then this is a bug ... as I see it, it can only be invaded from Gulf of Mexico

No Michael, this is OK.
In MWiF the sea area border is always on hexside, it can never be across a hex, so it can never be drawn like it is drawn on the WiF FE map. So in MWiF, the Sea area placed like it is for Havana is touching the NE and E hexsides, and the NE one is an all sea hexside.

This is the same as Liverpool for example.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Never had trouble with Batavia, Patrice. I think on the Wif maps, I'm taking how the blue sea zone dividing line connects with a port or hex too literally. On the Wif maps, the blue lines connect directly to the ports; on the Matrix Wif maps, some stop short. No big deal, still love the new maps and can't wait to play the game.

But... one more question. Havana is a port hex that connects to both the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Is Havana a hex that can be invaded from the Caribbean, or only from the Gulf of Mexico? I know Havana can be invaded because of the all-sea hexsides, but from where???

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

Here is an example of where invasion are/are not possible for a hex that connects to 2 sea areas.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

ORIGINAL: Orm

Havanna can be invaded from both sea areas.

In MWIF the text for the hex tells you from which sea areas it can be invaded. If the hex touch a sea area but can't be invaded from it MWIF writes "no invasion" as a comment on that sea area.

then this is a bug ... as I see it, it can only be invaded from Gulf of Mexico

No Michael, this is OK.
In MWiF the sea area border is always on hexside, it can never be across a hex, so it can never be drawn like it is drawn on the WiF FE map. So in MWiF, the Sea area placed like it is for Havana is touching the NE and E hexsides, and the NE one is an all sea hexside.

This is the same as Liverpool for example.

that is just confusing for the players ...a courting to the map there are not a all-sea hexside towards the Caribbean

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur




then this is a bug ... as I see it, it can only be invaded from Gulf of Mexico

No Michael, this is OK.
In MWiF the sea area border is always on hexside, it can never be across a hex, so it can never be drawn like it is drawn on the WiF FE map. So in MWiF, the Sea area placed like it is for Havana is touching the NE and E hexsides, and the NE one is an all sea hexside.

This is the same as Liverpool for example.

that is just confusing for the players ...a courting to the map there are not a all-sea hexside towards the Caribbean

Changing the graphic rendering of sea area borders is not easy. I have no interest in messing around with that code. This issue was decided back in 2006.

[HansHafen]

You will play 1000 WIF games before this space on the map will even become relavent, much less in use. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Skanvak]

In computer program there are no small stuff as modifying after can be more problematic.

There is one thing I don't understand : why the sea zone limit cannot be accross an hex? It is accross an hex between key west and the marsh west of Miami?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

In computer program there are no small stuff as modifying after can be more problematic.

There is one thing I don't understand : why the sea zone limit cannot be accross an hex? It is accross an hex between key west and the marsh west of Miami?

If the sea area boundary crosses a hex (the example you referred to crosses a hex side), then the question of where on which side of the hexdot it belongs arises. When ADG drew the paper maps, the artist made that decision - it affects game play.

In the Havanna example, there is another land hex on the other side of the hex that is being crossed (i.e., Key West). But if there were simply open ocean on the other side, connecting to the all-sea hex becomes a problem. Afterall, that all-sea hex is going to have a sea area boundary too - and its sea area boundary is going to run down a hexside.

The repercussions continue.

As a simple example, consider that situation if Key West and the two coastal hexes adjacent to it were all-sea hexes. Explore the possibilities if the sea area boundary were to enter Miami from the west or southeast. Or if the sea area boundary were to enter the hex NW of Miami.

Now try thinking up all the possible situations and writing code to cover all of them. Bear in mind that there are 6 hexsides and any solution has to handle all 6 requisite rotations.

Poof! There went a week of coding.[X(][:)]

[Plainian]

Mmmh well I didn't quite follow most of what you said Steve but I will take your word about the difficulty involved.
As long as there are few places like this on the map so I don't spend a lot of time checking places to see which sea areas are involved.
If the sea area boundary had been drawn as below then I reckon that would have fixed things..

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Mmmh well I didn't quite follow most of what you said Steve but I will take your word about the difficulty involved.
As long as there are few places like this on the map so I don't spend a lot of time checking places to see which sea areas are involved.
If the sea area boundary had been drawn as below then I reckon that would have fixed things..

But that is wrong. An air unit in Havana should not be able to reach a hex dot in the Carribean with 1 MP. In the MWIF version it takes 2 MP.

A better example is Liverpool, where it takes an air unit 5 MP to reach a hex dot in the Faeroes Gap.

[Plainian]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Mmmh well I didn't quite follow most of what you said Steve but I will take your word about the difficulty involved.
As long as there are few places like this on the map so I don't spend a lot of time checking places to see which sea areas are involved.
If the sea area boundary had been drawn as below then I reckon that would have fixed things..

But that is wrong. An air unit in Havana should not be able to reach a hex dot in the Carribean with 1 MP. In the MWIF version it takes 2 MP.

A better example is Liverpool, where it takes an air unit 5 MP to reach a hex dot in the Faeroes Gap.

Ahhhh now I see the problems better. 60W light bulb just gone on up here on the other side of the planet!