OT - They got Osama

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Kubel

Well done US.
But I'm sure since he recieved a burial at sea the conspiracy theories will be rampant at any minute.

It wouldn't change anything for the tin foil cap crowd if his body was paraded to every one of their living rooms. This way there is no grave site that can be used as a rallying point to inspire additional crazies to attack civilization.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The world needed to see his head on the end of a very long pike.....heading a parade of our armed forces.......coming up the middle of Fifth Avenue, New York City...........

We're better than that; we aren't Imperial Rome. He was trash. He got treated as such.

"Sponson 6 is open for the dumping of trash." [:D]

[JWE]

According to the reports, it was a JSOC op. Don't think ST-6 has integral air transport, so I think maybe an element of 160th SOAR?

Wouldn't that be a kick? The Army provides lift for a Navy ground op. You gotta love these guys!!

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The world needed to see his head on the end of a very long pike.....heading a parade of our armed forces.......coming up the middle of Fifth Avenue, New York City...........

We're better than that; we aren't Imperial Rome. He was trash. He got treated as such.

"Sponson 6 is open for the dumping of trash." [:D]

Ouche. That's cold. [:D] But good![:D] Do you suppose they need the EPA to sign off? [&:][:D]

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

What I find intresting is what they are NOT saying. They used SEAL team six, which is the hostage rescue team (equivalent to the Army's Delta force). Also, despite it being a SEAL team, that evacted to the USS Carl Vinson , the op used BLACKHAWK helicopters. That means US Army. (The USN uses Seahawks, the USAF uses Night Hawks and Pave Hawks, the USMC doesn't use that type at all).

Could The 160th SOAR have been used? Or some other unit ? I notice that in the photo the wreckage is painted OD, which suggests US Army. Anybody else pick up anything?[&:]

Just recently listening the the White House staffer in charge of counter terrorism give a press conference, something tweaked my radar. He described the strike force taking measures to ensure they would not be attacked by any Pakistani AF jets, because no one in the Pakistani government or military was informed they were going. They flew from somewhere to this compound and then all the way out of the country without being detected or intercepted. If the point of origin/return was the sea, then they basically flew across the entire country, in and again out. I think there were considerably more aircraft involved than a couple of USA Blackhawk Helicopters. [;)]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: JWE

According to the reports, it was a JSOC op. Don't think ST-6 has integral air transport, so I think maybe an element of 160th SOAR?

Wouldn't that be a kick? The Army provides lift for a Navy ground op. You gotta love these guys!!

My understanding is one of the two CSAR squadrons was to take on that duty (part of the justification for forming them). But if it is ARMY, I'd be glad to see it. Maybe we can put the Ghosts of desert one finally to rest. Real/joint/functioning/OPS. [&o]

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: JWE

According to the reports, it was a JSOC op. Don't think ST-6 has integral air transport, so I think maybe an element of 160th SOAR?

Wouldn't that be a kick? The Army provides lift for a Navy ground op. You gotta love these guys!!

They couldn't care less who is driving the taxi. [:D]

The number I've heard on TV is two dozen SEAL's. I think they were ready to handle anything they found there. [8D]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

What I find intresting is what they are NOT saying. They used SEAL team six, which is the hostage rescue team (equivalent to the Army's Delta force). Also, despite it being a SEAL team, that evacted to the USS Carl Vinson , the op used BLACKHAWK helicopters. That means US Army. (The USN uses Seahawks, the USAF uses Night Hawks and Pave Hawks, the USMC doesn't use that type at all).

Could The 160th SOAR have been used? Or some other unit ? I notice that in the photo the wreckage is painted OD, which suggests US Army. Anybody else pick up anything?[&:]

Just recently listening the the White House staffer in charge of counter terrorism give a press conference, something tweaked my radar. He described the strike force taking measures to ensure they would not be attacked by any Pakistani AF jets, because no one in the Pakistani government or military was informed they were going. They flew from somewhere to this compound and then all the way out of the country without being detected or intercepted. If the point of origin/return was the sea, then they basically flew across the entire country, in and again out. I think there were considerably more aircraft involved than a couple of USA Blackhawk Helicopters. [;)]

Of that I have no doubt. But From Afganistan to the CV would be a very long flight unrefueled. So it might be a truly multi service OP. USN SEALS flown by 160 SOAR, refueled by USMC MC or KC-130's to a USN CV. And no doubt J-STAR , AWACS and RIVET JOINT (provided by the USAF) providing electronic control and cover. Truly a fully joint OP. I'll be watching "The Strategy Page" over the next few days for the "rest of the story".

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: JWE

According to the reports, it was a JSOC op. Don't think ST-6 has integral air transport, so I think maybe an element of 160th SOAR?

Wouldn't that be a kick? The Army provides lift for a Navy ground op. You gotta love these guys!!

They couldn't care less who is driving the taxi. [:D]

The number I've heard on TV is two dozen SEAL's. I think they were ready to handle anything they found there. [8D]

Actually they do. They have since 1983 when an unnamed service dropped a SEAL team TOO far out to sea and most of them drowned off Grenada. [:(]

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Of that I have no doubt. But From Afganistan to the CV would be a very long flight unrefueled. So it might be a truly multi service OP. USN SEALS flown by 160 SOAR, refueled by USMC MC or KC-130's to a USN CV. And no doubt J-STAR , AWACS and RIVET JOINT (provided by the USAF) providing electronic control and cover. Truly a fully joint OP. I'll be watching "The Strategy Page" over the next few days for the "rest of the story".

Quite agree. An honest to gosh joint op that got it right. I think we are learning.[;)] Aviation Week will likely have pictures of the damn birds and interviews with the pilots. Do think you and Mike are right. There was some e-cover running. Maybe for once the airfarce got it right too. You gotta love it when a plan comes together.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

What I find intresting is what they are NOT saying. They used SEAL team six, which is the hostage rescue team (equivalent to the Army's Delta force). Also, despite it being a SEAL team, that evacted to the USS Carl Vinson , the op used BLACKHAWK helicopters. That means US Army. (The USN uses Seahawks, the USAF uses Night Hawks and Pave Hawks, the USMC doesn't use that type at all).

Could The 160th SOAR have been used? Or some other unit ? I notice that in the photo the wreckage is painted OD, which suggests US Army. Anybody else pick up anything?[&:]

Just recently listening the the White House staffer in charge of counter terrorism give a press conference, something tweaked my radar. He described the strike force taking measures to ensure they would not be attacked by any Pakistani AF jets, because no one in the Pakistani government or military was informed they were going. They flew from somewhere to this compound and then all the way out of the country without being detected or intercepted. If the point of origin/return was the sea, then they basically flew across the entire country, in and again out. I think there were considerably more aircraft involved than a couple of USA Blackhawk Helicopters. [;)]

Of that I have no doubt. But From Afganistan to the CV would be a very long flight unrefueled. So it might be a truly multi service OP. USN SEALS flown by 160 SOAR, refueled by USMC MC or KC-130's to a USN CV. And no doubt J-STAR , AWACS and RIVET JOINT (provided by the USAF) providing electronic control and cover. Truly a fully joint OP. I'll be watching "The Strategy Page" over the next few days for the "rest of the story".

Why not some upcountry (and remote) refueling / dropoff site with sufficient range for the little birds to get to the target site? Have longer range (CH-53 or kin) rotary or Osprey variable wing assets located there to shuttle the assets out of country. The idea behind Desert One wasn't a bad one-they just picked a bad site and had some miscommunication in execution and withdrawal strategies.

No matter how they did it or what they did it with-that's just idle curiosity getting the better of me-kudos to them on a job very well done.

I do appreciate the very clever idea of burial at sea here. Quite appropriate, considering the alternatives.

The 'id' part of me wanted to watch OBL suffer a little more. A double tap to the head, while appropriate, seems almost anticlimactic. Since it was to be a naval operation, couldn't they have at least keel hauled him from the Nimitz (at flank speed, natch) or somethin'?

[USSAmerica]

Retired NYPD just left Anderson Cooper speechless for a moment with his comment, "Now OBL will learn there are no virgins at the bottom of the ocean."  [:D]

[AW1Steve]

The biggest problems (as I understand it from reading and from a good friend of mine who was there) with the whole "desert one" plan was it was too. Too complicated. Too far reaching. Too much of an attempt to bring in as many players as possible (most of whom had never met or played together till the event was to come off. The best chance for success is generally simple. Anyone who's been part of a flight crew can tell you that while "they must come down" (mankind as a perfect record of manned aircraft. We've never left one up there yet!)[:D] , getting them to take off again is always a crap shoot. The most wonderfully maintained and pampered aircraft will suddenly decide it doesn't want to fly. And that's it. It doesn't. So you always (except for commercial air) try to minimize the number of landings and stops you make. Landing in a poetentially hostile country to refuel is just about the most frightening thing I can think of. 1) you're already low on fuel (that ALWAYS increases the pucker-factor, even in peacetime) and 2) you are landed in enemy territory. Helpless. On the ground. Vulnerable. PRAYING that you have fuel there, and that you can restart your beast. You can argue that a "Hotfuel" will minimize the danger of not being able to restart, but it's risky in itself. (Hot engine, fuel, you do the math!).

All that being said, it's far safer to refuel in the air (or even better , don't refuel at all).

The fact that they used H-60's and not the SOAR's AH-6's ("Little birds") , a much smaller aircraft, said that they were looking for a smaller aircraft, but one with longer range. But obviously a CH-47,CH-46,or CH-53 with much greater range, apparently could not fit into the compound. Overall, this raid reminds me more of the Son Tay raid, then "Eagle claw" (desert one).

[AW1Steve]

It was just confirmed that they were MH-60's , and took off from Bagraham AB.

[Nemo121]

Even if they didn't have an Imam on the ships normally with Osama it was a binary operation. They'd either take him alive or dead. You'd better believe that the question of what to do if he was dead was prepped and decided weeks before this happened. I'm quite sure they had all of the prep for an observant Muslim burial all prepped and ready to go the night of the op. No point giving free propaganda points away.

[DOCUP]

Remember Delta dosen't exist in the military's eyes. They go under other names that could be released by slip of tongue (SOF-D, CAG but they can be a mixture of Spec Ops). SOAR operateds out of Bagraham alot. I have seen SEALS use SOAR. They are not solely used for Delta, Green Berets, or Rangers.

It will take a long time before Delta is publicly acknowledge by the military. Seals do operate out of Afghanistan. Side note I ran into one while I was there who served with my brother on a Boomer in the early 90's. Seal teams consits of around 20 men. Not saying who went in but who ever did. Outstanding Job

I agree with AW1Steve, Less time on the ground refueling and the like the better, lots of time for Mr. Murphy to show up and ruin your day.

doc

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

It was just confirmed that they were MH-60's , and took off from Bagraham AB.

Steve,

Do you have a non-mainstream (e.g., CNN, MSNBC) feed for this detail (that you can share, of course)? I'm frustrated by the lack of specifics on the mainstream sites.

Thanks,

[AW1Steve]

Here's one. http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehou ... n-20110502

I just did a couple of searches for "Blackhawk , raid" , then MH-60 raid. Of course , being MSM , you can assume 50% is wrong. In a day or to check "The Strategy Page" for the whole story , written by military and former military, as a historian would look at it. It was through these guys that I found Matrix (they sell some of their games, as well as other companies). http://www.strategypage.com/default.asp

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Here's one. http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehou ... n-20110502

I just did a couple of searches for "Blackhawk , raid" , then MH-60 raid. Of course , being MSM , you can assume 50% is wrong. In a day or to check "The Strategy Page" for the whole story , written by military and former military, as a historian would look at it. It was through these guys that I found Matrix (they sell some of their games, as well as other companies). http://www.strategypage.com/default.asp

Thanks, dude. [&o]

[AW1Steve]

Most welcome! Now that you don't have to look up the article, you have more time for other things.....like turns. [:D]