Phantom Leader AAR

[jomni]

That is a really nice game.  In my opinion, it is better than Hornet Leader because of older tech and more political considerations that made the historical air war in Vietnam absurd and pointless at times.  Waiting for ages for DVG to release a VASSAL version as my wife locked up the game box in an unaccessible cabinet.   Maybe I'll load up Matrix  Hornet Leader again.
 

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

The newbie pilot is named Cajun? Being born and raised in Louisiana, I'm offended! [:D]

Don't worry - I think it's just a coincidence - nothing personal

Oh, I'm just pulling your leg. [:)]

[JudgeDredd]

I got that [;)]

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I got that [;)]

Well, I don't want to mess with someone that is the law! [&o][:D]

[Adam Parker]

Very well done Judge - the photos make a real difference to the typcial AAR. Loved it [8D]

Now how do I give you some Geek Gold?!!

PS: Btw - if you do get the new Hornet Leader - you'll love the mounted Tactical Display. The chits are much thicker too for some extra value but I found the quality of the chit cardboard in Phantom Leader just fine. Dan makes some of the best playing chits around.

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks.

No one has pointed out I started calling Monger Mongrel lmao. I guess I started calling him that because Judge was performing better.

I think I will definitely pick up Hornet Leader. Whether I do it prior to my holiday in the Lake District or not, I don't know. That would be the best time because I'll have a week off...so it's more than likely I'll shell out for it before the end of May to take on holiday with me - and besides there are no computer game purchases for me this month and I do like the sound of some of the scenarios and kit.

lol - sod it. I'm off to buy now!

[Wolfe1759]

Judge - one other game that might be of interest if you haven't allready got it is Downtown by Lee Brimmicombe-Wood published by GMT. Covers the same ground as Phantom Leader i.e. operational Vietnam War air combat but in a lot less abstract and therefore both more detailed and complex (this may or may not be a plus point). Primarily a two player game but it has a rather good and free to download solitaire supplement allowing you to take on the role of the US forces. Meticulously researched with a lot of interesting detail and design notes, it's what got me reading the John T Smith books in the first place.

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks Wolfe - but I think Hornet Leader will break my bank for boardgames (and anything else) this month.

Looks interesting - though I'm a "little" dubious when a game is primarily 2 player but "can be played" single player.

To be honest, it looks a little complexed for me though - too many chits on the example screen shots I looked at.

[Obsolete]

When I look at older games like this, I sometimes wish computers were never invented.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Thanks Wolfe - but I think Hornet Leader will break my bank for boardgames (and anything else) this month.

So did'ja get it?!

It took me 6 card deck holders to house all its amazing cards! Each pilot has 3 cards in this one spanning "newbie to ace". Extreme career role playing potential.

[JudgeDredd]

I will be buying.

One thing I did notice about the Phantom Leader game - lack of counters. Especially the HITS and STRESS counters.

Are they the same in Hornet Leader? Would be handy if they are.

One quick question - how do you "remember" at the end of a scenario that an aircraft was hit. I used a stress counter - which only exacerbated the lack of stress counters

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
One quick question - how do you "remember" at the end of a scenario that an aircraft was hit. I used a stress counter - which only exacerbated the lack of stress counters

By hit I assume you mean Damaged in which case you don't need to. Damage only has an effect in the Over Target segment of the sequence of play when the effect is to cause it to jettison all of its payload, and be vulnerable to destruction if it takes a 2nd Damage result (which could happen either in a Over Target phase or by a Home-Bound segment event). Once you have finished the mission the only thing that carries over to the next mission is Stress and this is recorded on the Pilots Log rather than by a counter.

An easy way to remember which of your aircraft is damaged during a mission is to rotate the (now empty bar a stress counter) card 180 degrees.

Stress markers are only needed for aircraft currently on mission and hit/damage markers are only needed to mark damage on the mission target itself.

At least thats how I've been playing it.

P.S. let us know what you think of Hornet Leader in comparison to Phantom Leader when you get it.

[JudgeDredd]

Gotcha on the "turning the card 180" - I knew damage didn't carry over - I prob wasn't clear - I was wondering how to remember during the mission - but turning it 180 degress works. Just wish there were more hit counters and stress counters.

I guess I don't have to have the stress counters on the "parked" aircraft, but it makes it nice and clear to me as opposed to reading the values from my sheet - I can see at a glance then.

But if Hornet Leader has the same counters, then that could be handy

[JudgeDredd]

I have a couple of questions for Phantom Leader players - something I've not been able to work out from the wording of the manual - and I don't want to cheat...

1. Are you able to attack the target from outside the centre zone? The reason I ask is I had a radar Site target - and I armed my aircraft with Shrikes which have a range of 2. Would I have been able to attack the site from the pre-approach area as it is range 2? I didn't and went in close to the target - but I was wondering if I had to. As it was I destroyed the target - but I was going to sit tight and take out any bandits whilst firing my Shrikes.

2. Suppression - I know any aircraft can provide suppression - but 2 things I'm unclear about - 1. Can an aircraft provide suppression and then attack a site (or attack a site and still suppress) and 2. Can an aircraft provide more than one suppression? In a mission I just did, I loaded up a plane with Rockets purely for suppression and anytime someone was attacked, I used him to suppress - is that allowed?

Thx

[Wolfe1759]

As far as I'm aware, and the way I play it would be

1. YES - if it is in range of the weapon(s) you are using/expending you can attack it, be it Target, Site or Bandit.

2. 1. YES - from AAR#2 on the DVG site -

The MiG-17 then fires back, targeting Hazel 12. Bronco 05
sends an AIM-9 at the MiG for suppression, but misses.
Hazel decides to Evade, costing him 2 Stress. The MiG-17
misses, thanks to the Evasion and Cougar 01’s ‘-1 from
enemy rolls’ ability.

The slow pilots are now able to attack. Bronco 05 sends
another AIM-9 at that same MiG-17 but misses again.

2. 2. YES - however each Site or Bandit attack can only have one Aircraft attempt suppression(s) against it, these suppressions follow the rules as per Attack Restrictions (pg. 9) i.e. Guns or Weapon Counter(s)

In all individual Attacks/Suppressions I assume that all weapon counters used have to be pre-designated before the rolls are made i.e. you can't drop one bomb, see its results and then decide to drop another.

And to answer my own question I've just found this response from Dan himself over at Board Game Geek - You need to declare all the munitions to be used against the target, before rolling any dice.

[JudgeDredd]

Great

1. Good news. I did think about doing that, but it seemed to make the mission too easy (I could stay away from sites, but I guess you could do that with Shrikes irl)

2.1 Good - that's how I've been playing

2.2 Good - that's how I've been playing. So an SA2 attacks an Knife. Mongrel suppresses. An M1939 attacks BatDog - and Mongrel suppresses again...successful or not, as long as only one suppression happens in that action.

Thanks for clearing that up.

And I do all things before I roll the die. I don't roll for the attack, see the hit and THEN decide to suppress...I decide to suppress before the enemy roll.

[E]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Just wish there were more hit counters and stress counters.

I guess I don't have to have the stress counters on the "parked" aircraft, but it makes it nice and clear to me as opposed to reading the values from my sheet - I can see at a glance then.

I've been able to park all stress on the aircraft using the included counters. Granted, it took a lot of juggling at the end of each mission COUPLED with the next day reductions. But it has worked out every time... so far!

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
But if Hornet Leader has the same counters, then that could be handy

Yes, they are apparently the same components, in the same quantity. Which are JUST barely enough, if juggled in the aforementioned manner. However, like you I wish more stress counters had been included with each game, so you don't have to buy two games to make it easier to juggle one game at a time. Or perhaps Dan could do a run of just those counters and sell half sheets for cheap!?

[JudgeDredd]

Just ordered Hornet Leader - that's my gaming budget for the month.

I needed to ask a question about Phantom Leader - I couldn't see anything in the rules about it. When you move the Politics counter to the right (the number of spaces depending on the target), what is the process when you pull your 2 (or 3 or 4) target cards and you don't have the political points left to be able to select them (in a game the other night, I pulled 2 target cards which had 5PP and 4PP but only had 2 on the Politics track).

What I did was pull another two until I could find a target that had PPs that I could perform. But I'm guessing (it's not in the rule book that I could see) I should've missed that "day" of the campaign - perhaps doing aircraft stress recovery? Or I could've used SPs to pull more??

Thanks

[E]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I needed to ask a question about Phantom Leader - I couldn't see anything in the rules about it.

Bottom left of page 7 ("Down Time" ...But also look just above that section at "Recon Priority")

[JudgeDredd]

mmm...thanks E - no idea how I missed it. It's not like the rules are that complex.

Mind you, my short term memory seems to be getting worse by the day. I even forget to add +1 to my die rolls as I've choosen the Green Campaign...just flat keep forgetting to do it - AND it's written down on my campaign sheet on the Notes section. [8|]