What good is the interdiction rule?

[K62_]

Does the interdiction house rule actually prohibit something? It says

"An HQ can't launch more than two interdiction attacks against a single corps in one turn, however a corps can be interdicted two or more times from different HQ's, as long as each HQ attacks no more than twice"

So you can do this: HQ A bombs corps X two times and corps Y two times. HQ B does the same thing. So the only inconvenience is that you have to switch HQs when you bomb a single corps, but you still get to use each bomber group individually, although in a roundabout way.

In a game of '44, I am German and my opponent is launching 20+ interdiction strikes each turn from 5-6 HQs, blowing through any fortified position. So what use is the interdiction rule???:mad:

P.S.

Dave,

In case you're reading this, your WiRmap.gif is really old. Otherwise - great site, thanks for keeping up the good work!

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by K62
Does the interdiction house rule actually prohibit something? It says

Its supposed to prevent the player from executing a huge number of small strikes (single bomber groups) resulting in higher damage to the target than if all those bombers flew at once. The game curently has the the effect where small multiple strikes are more damaging then one big strike.

Of course, multiple heavy strikes from multiple HQs is suppose to be devastating, but at some point we have to ask ourselves how many air missions can be flown over one square in a week?

Personally, I would just restrict the number of interdictions to 5 or 6 and be done with it. Of course these 5 to 6 interdictions could all be large so serious damage couild still be done, but 20+ interdicitons by 4,000+ aircraft on one corps in 7 days has me scratching my head. Maybe someone has some example of concentrated air strikes on one corps-size target to get a feel for what is realistic?

The house rules are a consensus-based set of rules that a majority agrees to (otherwise they would be useless), so we need to hear from others who use the house rules, before we can talk about changing this.

[Preuss]

How about the Falaise Gap? How many strikes there?

I recently conducted a comnparison study against two opponents. In both games I set up my allocation of air forces thus:

Panzerarmees and 11th armee, 8 or 9 air units each (transport wings included). All others, 1 fighter and one bomber each.

My opponents followed the common strategy of complete withdrawal to a line that stretched from Leningrad to Bryansk and then another along the dneiper.

In game A, I flew every mission possible...much to the detriment of op points

In game B, I flew few missions, hoarding my op points.

The results were dramatically different.
All of Game A's missions against strongly entrenched units would net terribly small amounts of infantry casualties, and my panzers were often stopped in their tracks.

Game B, on the other hand saw the panzers punching through the Rzhev-Bryansk line as if the Ivans were made of paper.

Yes, repeated air attacks work well against non entrenched units, while massive single raids or many smaller raids deliver poor results on entrenched targets.

I believe that if the rights of air superiority are to be infringed upon, then stacking limits should be set. Yes, I know there is a readiness penalty for having too many divisions in a corps, but I also know that if the leader's rating is high, and the corps are doing nothing but entrenching, this penalty is negligible.

So, I still think it should be up to the player to decide what he's going to do, because it's usually a tradeoff.

[SLAAKMAN]

LIMIT AIRSTRIKES? HAR HAR HAR. I PLAY THE MAC/AMIGA VERSION WHERE THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS, NO IMMUTABLE FACTORY LIMITATIONS AND THE ALLIED AIRFORCE GETS SHOT DOWN IN DROVES BY 95+ RATED FW190A INTERCEPTORS. WHY CHANGE A GOOD THING?
SLAAKATTAK

[MikeB]

How many games have your opponents completed with you?

[g00dd0ggy]

The big problem I always had with multiple interdiction was not necessarily the damage caused by the strikes, but the fact that the attacker could repeatedly force the defender's CAP into action, thereby pretty much annihilating it in very short order.

If you had 4 good fighter squadrons plus 4 or so bomber formations, if you fly all 4 bombers at once you may get a better result than if you flew 4 separate sorties, BUT you only make the defensive CAP fly once. Fly 4 sorties and the defenders CAP has to fly 4 aswell, leading to potentially huge fighter losses. The attacker can pick and choose where he hits and use his best fighter units many times per turn in effect.

I saw this in action in a '43 campaign, where I played the Russians vs an Axis player. It was a stroll for the Russians in the main, but I fought almost entirely without defensive air cover even in 1944, because the Axis player used this tactic. Believe me it can be devastating, because it allows the player with an aerial advantage to convert that into complete domination very quickly.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by SLAAKMAN
LIMIT AIRSTRIKES?

Let me introduce you to what is obviously a new concept to you: LOWERCASE.

[SLAAKMAN]

MIKE- IVE COMPLETED DOZENS OF CAMPAIGN GAMES USING THE 1989-90 AMIGA/MAC VERSION. IM USED TO THE LEVEL OF UNREGULATED FREEDOM THAT COMES IN THAT VERSION. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME.

ED- I USE CAPS SINCE MY EYESIGHT SUX.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by SLAAKMAN
ED- I USE CAPS SINCE MY EYESIGHT SUX.

Makes no sense, most of what you read is written by others, which means 90% of what you are reading is lowercase. You are better off getting a larger monitor for your poor eysight, as I do.

[davewolf]

Ed - SLAAK 1-0


Hehe.


When will you start winning, SLAAKIE?


:p

[SLAAKMAN]

"Ed - SLAAK 1-0
Hehe.

When will you start winning, SLAAKIE?"



WHENEVER I DECIDE TO TAKE THIS NIPPLE OUT OF MY MOUTH. OH, WHATS THAT YOU SAY SWEETIE? YOUR MRS. DAVEWOLF? HE'S COMING HOME SOON? AWE THATS ALRIGHT, I'LL JUST TELL HIM THAT HE HASNT BEEN ANYWHERE THAT I HAVENT BEEN! :p
SLAAKATTAK

[davewolf]

Nice try,...

...or so...

(Of course you cannot know that your trial is too absurd to really bother...)


Geriatrics rule or what?

(Just being polite to an old chap who certainly needs help whenever trying to cross a ((very) small) street.)


:p

[CRAZY_HORSE007]

Originally posted by g00dd0ggy
The big problem I always had with multiple interdiction was not necessarily the damage caused by the strikes, but the fact that the attacker could repeatedly force the defender's CAP into action, thereby pretty much annihilating it in very short order.

If you had 4 good fighter squadrons plus 4 or so bomber formations, if you fly all 4 bombers at once you may get a better result than if you flew 4 separate sorties, BUT you only make the defensive CAP fly once. Fly 4 sorties and the defenders CAP has to fly 4 aswell, leading to potentially huge fighter losses. The attacker can pick and choose where he hits and use his best fighter units many times per turn in effect.

I saw this in action in a '43 campaign, where I played the Russians vs an Axis player. It was a stroll for the Russians in the main, but I fought almost entirely without defensive air cover even in 1944, because the Axis player used this tactic. Believe me it can be devastating, because it allows the player with an aerial advantage to convert that into complete domination very quickly.

What you must do as Russian, to counter this tactic.
Is to have always 5 fighters squadrons placed in CAP mission at full strenght or at least with 160 planes avaibles.
And let the others figthers in training.
At the beginning you will see your number figthers reduced from 200 to +/- 50 avaible planes.
But if you put them in training and put 5 others full squadrons in CAP mission, and redo the same for the others turns; you will see that the rotation is possible and that your fighters experience will increase slowly.

And at the other and your German opponent will lose a bunch of planes.

So you continue to be active on the front and you do not lose Russian initiative.

MArc

[MikeB]

Perhaps one could add the locaton to the email notifier for Slackman. Anyone near him who could afford a phone call...could phone/visit? to reassure the rest of us that he is doing his best to participate in WIR.