Maybe a New AAR

[Fishbed]

Well, dunno if that was on purpose, but just for you to know, "plan Q" in French means something like "a good opportunity to have sex". Enjoy the interesting interpretation considering your game... Well if it involves watching girls fighting in the mud, why not [:D]

[JAMiAM]

I'm not going to lie. I sacrificed two chickens and a goat, while dancing nude in my backyard, to entice the rain gods to lend Mother Russia a helping deluge. Okay...maybe just a small lie, but truthfully, it came at a most fortuitous time. PDH's planned offensive would have caught me a turn weaker in terms of replacement absorption, entrenchment, and additional reserve units. Things could have been very ugly. Here is the situation around Pskov at the end of my turn 4.

[JAMiAM]

Here in the Center, you can see that the Soviets in the landbridge have lived to fight another day, as the Panzers, though fueled up, are mired in the mud. My C&C is improved now, given the big dump of APs coinciding with the arrival of the Reserve Front. However, as I've been spending a lot of APs on getting my crappy Generals replaced with top-notch commanders in the areas most threatened by PDH, as well as disbanding Forts and Corps HQs, I still have some work to do. So...Reserve Front will remain, for now, in reserve.

[JAMiAM]

In the South, the 1st Pz Group is likewise mired in the muck. Unlike in the other areas, though, they weren't resupplied by HQ Buildup. Further south, not shown in this picture, the German 11th Army has forced a large bridgehead over the Dnestr River, just east of Kishinev. Along with the 1st Panzer Group, it could potentially begin a double envelopment of my forces along the upper Dnestr, so I have begun withdrawing back to the Yuzhny Bug River.

[Scook_99]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

As James points out though, the tarbaby tactic causing additional mp's is the best reason to do it IMO too.

I've never understood this argument. If you start next to a German unit, doesn't it cost fewer MP for the German to simply hasty attack your adjacent unit than to enter the unit's ZoC (if it were one hex away), and then attack?

It may be better for movement purposes. but your fatigue will rise rapidly, and it consumes supplies, ammunition, and fuel that you won't use if you take the movement penalty.

[Scook_99]

Wow, this game is a deja vu for me. My friend only plays me, and Jam plays exactly like what I am used to. The mud also, is a normal thing. Random weather doesn't feel so random to me, as either 7/2/41, or 7/10/41 the rain shows up. I would ask for both of you to comment as much as possible, maybe I can pick up something I can use. I have yet had an encirclement go unpunished outside of turn 1. Good luck, Aitch, so me what you got.


ps: it would actually make me feel better if things don't go so well for you. At least I know I am not going out of my way to screw up my German Army.

[Sabre21]

ORIGINAL: Scook_99

Wow, this game is a deja vu for me. My friend only plays me, and Jam plays exactly like what I am used to. The mud also, is a normal thing. Random weather doesn't feel so random to me, as either 7/2/41, or 7/10/41 the rain shows up. I would ask for both of you to comment as much as possible, maybe I can pick up something I can use. I have yet had an encirclement go unpunished outside of turn 1. Good luck, Aitch, so me what you got.


ps: it would actually make me feel better if things don't go so well for you. At least I know I am not going out of my way to screw up my German Army.

In the game I was recently running, random weather didn't show up until turn 8 in one sector and in turn 9 in another. I've also played games as the Soviets where no mud arrived at all until 18 and then on turn 19 one zone was clear...go figure.

There are a few fixes coming though with our new patch that we will begin testing soon that hopefully will make things a bit more unpredictible.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

There are a few fixes coming though with our new patch that we will begin testing soon that hopefully will make things a bit more unpredictible.

That sound like great news! It would really be nice to have random weather a little less "wild and crazy".

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Scook_99

It may be better for movement purposes. but your fatigue will rise rapidly, and it consumes supplies, ammunition, and fuel that you won't use if you take the movement penalty.

My understanding is that the fatigue and other effects are rather slight, and I would rather force the Germans to use as many MP as possible. If I have enough Sov units (and I usually do) I try to put one on each of the pz divisions, etc., especially after a few turns when they might be getting worn out, but I'm not completely convinced that this is the most effective approach. What do other people do?

[PeeDeeAitch]

Turn 5, with mud gone at least something could be done. The units were more tired than normal - and the turn of mud made some of the readied movement go away in several of the units, down perhaps 3-6 MP for random armored units.

Given an extra turn, the defenses were even better, and so as I predicted the slogging would start on turn 5 instead of about turn 7 or 8. No matter, it was time.

Here is a shot of two of the "spearhead" divisions, behind the lines, not tarbabied, but because of the mud supply, the next turn of regular supply, and the general mysterious rolls of the dice they are a bit more worn than normal. Ok, a lot more.

[PeeDeeAitch]

The North.

The Plan for turn 4 was to do a wide swinging encirclement of Pskove with a small direct drive in the hex to the northwest. At 46-49 MP the 7 mobile divisions of the 4th Panzer would have been able to handle this quite well. As it stood, the defenders had bright new level 2 forts, and far more defenders in the swamps than a turn before. What was going to be a sickle cut became a backyard brawl with bricks and bats.

I did manage to isolate a couple of units, and Pskov fell, but nothing was secure. Units in the rough and swamps made 4th Panzer's work tedious. The infantry was up, in parts, and did end the turn at the front - but now the leading edge of the tanks could see the garrisons in the woods north of Pskov. It looks the brawl will last all the way to the gates of Leningrad.

One note, the whole design of the turn 4 sweep was to potentially cut off Leningrad early, unhinging the defenses. The good German player should strive to do this. I have read a lot about how the Germans always face too many dug in defenders. Up until this game I have not, and it is the mud doing that to me. Just shows how vital it is to not lose time.

[PeeDeeAitch]

The Center 5

I don't want to moan too much, though that has its part in any wargame. Whining has helped me countless times in face to face to take the focus off of my main threat when I complain that the dice are too shart or that the Diet Dr Pepper is warm.

My attack did go off as I wanted, the Dnepr loop was still the best spot I could see. Recon showed drive slowing units happily dug in the trees north of Smolensk, and a push along the land bridge would leave my tanks funneled between two rivers and likely capped off at the end - a nice, less useful drive.

So I went south east. The river was crossed, though it was tougher. The forts were now level 1 there. One panzer corps to smash the point, another to drop in and get rid of ZOCs, and the eploit. Infantry did help some, though it was not much - this was always going to be a panzer operation with the infantry freeing up the northern tanks if they could.

[PeeDeeAitch]

South 5

Here, once the mud was gone, the drive was about what I expexted. Still funneled a bit my more entrenchments, the 3 panzers corps drove toward the Lower Dnepr. The goal was the same, turn 4 or 5, unhinge the north-south rivers as much as possible and force the defenders to either fall back or risk encirclement the following turns.

Here, the fatigue was the worst as fewer units could be pulled back. Still, this was always to be the slogging front until help came from the north.

[PeeDeeAitch]

11th Army turn 5

The 11th Army remains a concentrated force. I use it as a foot-spearhead toward Odessa and points beyond I do not like to worry about the big area between the main force of AGS and 11th Army, that is for the Romanians.

Here, the gates of Odessa have been reached, and the Soviets seem to have left but a token force. The concentrated 11th Army will be needed to smash over the Yuzhny Bug in coming weeks.

[PeeDeeAitch]

Losses thru my half of turn 5

I would guess fairly normal.

[timmyab]

Interesting to see what happens when two strong players meet.
After your turn one I think I might have just panicked and bolted for the Urals.[:D]

[JAMiAM]

Just to remind our gentle readers that PDH and I are running on a one turn delay in posting screenshots to avoid giving away too much intel. That, more than anything else, probably explains our instances of inspired prescience. So, in response to those teasers where we seem to predict what the other will do, it might be best to NOT think of us as operational geniuses. Rather, it would be better to see us as TV hucksters, keeping your interest on next week's exciting episode...[:D]

Anyhow, since PDH was kind enough this turn to show some zoomed in screenshots, which divulge a bit more intel than usual, I thought it fitting that I return the favor. Besides, this turn was a very interesting turn, with a lot of attacking and counterattacking, so a closer look at the action might help with explaining some of my decisions. This screenshot shows a "clean" look at the situation at the end of my turn 5, in the area around Pskov where some heavy fighting took place. That is, it is not marred by any of the F11 "Show battles sites" details. It should be compared with PDH's screenshot in his post #51.

[JAMiAM]

The following screenshot shows the dirty details of the turn, with the F11 filter on. As you can see, I launched three attacks in this area. Two successful, and one unsuccessful. I also reconverted as many enemy hexes as possible, so that I can do as much as I can to slow the advance of his units next turn on the expected continuation of his push toward Leningrad.

I make no mistake in thinking that my attacks will stop PDH's advance, but they should help slow it. By opening a line of supply to the 5 divisions that were trapped just east of Pskov, I have both cut off three German mobile units, as well as guaranteed that they will either survive another turn to slow down his movement in the area, or get retreated/routed out of pocket on followup attacks.

The losses to the German mobile units will help blunt the tip of PDH's schwerpunkt over time. Every lost battle for these invaluable units is a chance at reducing their morale which, since 1.03 Beta 3, has been much harder to gain than it has been to lose. Especially when they are substantially over the National Morale level, as most of his mobile forces are. Also, since the new refit rules prevent the enhancement of replacement absorption to units adjacent to enemy hexes, his always busy mobile units, being in constant contact with my forces, will rarely be treated to extra replacements. This is another reason that I am so aggressive in maintaining contact with his mobile units over the length of the front.

[JAMiAM]

The astute reader will probably notice that none of my screenshots are showing the fortification levels of the hexes. Though I'm feeling generous I don't want to give away too much info...[;)]

The following two screenshots, should be viewed in reference to PDH's post #52, as that showed his lines at the end of his turn. Mine, of course, are at the end of my turn. Here in the Center, things got wild and wooly. PDH cracked the Upper Dnepr at its weakest spot, the bend south of Vitebsk. It was not the weakest spot in terms of defenders, but given the number of hexes to attack from, the number of hexes on the opposing bank to clear of ezoc, and the potential for expanding and holding a bridgehead against counterattacks it is, geographically, the weakest part of the major river portion of the line. I should have had stronger units in this area.

With the diversion of the bulk of his two Panzer Groups to the bridgehead area, rather than trying to penetrate the landbridge area, it left me with some interesting choices to make. So, I opted to follow a roughly historical response to the developing problem. No, I didn't get a bottle of vodka down and proceed to get drunk. I launched a series of counterattacks against the German mobile units. In the heavy fighting, I drove back several German Panzer and Motorized Infantry divisions, with relatively favorable loss ratios. Though this will leave me weakened somewhat against his inevitable followup attacks, they again, will continue to whittle away at the strength he can continue to project throughout the campaign. I am taking a long-term look at the results of these battles, even when the losses don't favor me as much as they did this turn.

This is the clean shot.

[JAMiAM]

And the "dirty" shot.

For those interested, of the 8 attacks I launched, 6 succeeded in driving back the defending mobile units. None of the successful attacks here were due to the 1.x:1 > 2.x:1 Soviet attack odds modifier. They all succeeded on their own merits.