The East is Red III - Pelton vs Tarhunnas (no Pelton please)

[Ketza]

Peltons opening against Larry was sloppy as well. It just was not taken advantage of.

[Tarhunnas]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the encouragement.

Some comments and discussion are very welcome, but at present the majority of the AAR is taken up with discussion, and I barely played one turn. I would appreciate if extensive discussions could be redirected to other threads.

Also, it is my wish that comments be kept neutral and respectful to both sides.

That said, a word on the Soviet response on turn 1. An important issue not mentioned above is hex control. I try to keep as many hexes as possible under Soviet control, especially along major axes of advance. Even if reconverted, those hexes will all cost extra MPs for all Axis units during the entire Axis turn 2! This means 3 MPs to enter a hex instead of 1 for all but a few elite motorized units. This can add up to the infantry of AGC being one turn later at the Berezina or Dnepr, which makes a whole lot of difference! Conversely, an Axis player should not disregard the flanks and just push on. Even if the panzers recover from turn 1 isolation pretty fast (though I belive there are long term effects of one early turn on skimpy supply), it is an important issue for hex control, as isolated hexes will reconvert for free unless adjacent to an enemy unit. An axis player should try to defend the converted hexes, they are a golden bridge for the infantry to follow up on.

[Tarhunnas]

Overview of front after Axis turn 2 after recon but before Soviet movement.

I note the Axis strategy seems to be deep penetrations rather than securing additional pockets. I feel a frisson of fear as I see Panzers already across the river at Pskov. This will be interesting!

[Klydon]

Looking like a repeat of what he did against Larry. Is that the GD regiment down south with the Rumanians?

Nice job by him of cutting rail lines into the forming Minsk pocket. He got some rail lines in the south, but the rail net is still fairly intact enough to move stuff around.

This will be a challenging turn for the Russians as they will be tempted to move industry, but it might be better to write some of that off in order to move a max number of troops around to deal with the German spearheads.

[Ketza]

When I brought up the fact that Peltons opening was sloppy it was not meant in a deragatory way. Pelton has his own idea of what to do and its interesting to see how is openings that dont quite fit the current "mold" still develop in a succesful manner.

Watching his play as well as how Tarhunnas reacts is going to be a very good read.

I still think his advances are much to narrow. I have a Soviet game going against a player who has a style much like Peltons and I have found it quite easy to harrass his lines of communication as well as "funnel" him where I want to go based around knots of resitance.

It is imperative that the Axis player advance somewhat broadly in my opinion making it more difficult for the Soviet player to set up roadblocks and keep him guessing.

The part of peltons style I like is applying pressure to several key factories at once making the Soviet make some hard decisions on what factories to move and when.

[Tarhunnas]

However, No one's afraid of the big bad Panzer! If the little piglets stick together, they can give the panzer a bad fright! I had forces behind the river that could launch a deliberate attck. Counting on the 1-1 modifier to kick in here of course, but those are the rules of the game.

[Tarhunnas]

West of Pskov after Soviet move. It proves possible to cut the panzer wurst into a number of slices. Starting their turn out of supply should hopefully dampen their ardor.

[Tarhunnas]

And here is Byelorussia after Soviet moves. Again, panzer spearheads cut off. The landbridge carpeted and elswhere a comprehensive checkerboard.

[Mynok]

That's rather Tulliesque of you. [8D]

[Tarhunnas]

In the south, it is impossible to cut of the panzer thrust, or relieve the trapped comrades at Lvov. Withdrawal and carpet are the words of the day. We do manage to rout the Rumanian armored division though. Always a good warming up excercise for the RKKA!

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
That's rather Tulliesque of you. [8D]

He he! What though, the counterattack or the checkerboard?

[TulliusDetritus]

I guess the agressivity, Tarhunnas. You are warned though... the "your opponent sucks" brigade might soon appear [:D]

[Mynok]

Lots of people use checkerboards but that was almost a text-book cutoff move as per TD's strategy thread.

[76mm]

I don't understand why he has such narrow penetrations, and yet most of his units are in stacks...you think he'd want to spread out a bit to defend his flanks more, prevent cut-offs. Can any German players shed any light on this?

[TulliusDetritus]

Tarhunnas, after seeing two of your AARs as Soviet, I can see I did something WRONG on my current game.

I weakened the South big time, in order to reinforce the center (then some of these forces went to Leningrad area). But your two games prove you can have a rather decent south (white units attached to Stavka: I totally evacuated them to the north) AND a strong position in the both the north and center.

In other words, I have learned a good lesson here: you are well balanced everywhere, I was very strong in the center and north but VERY weak in the south [&o]

I too remember Mynok had warned me about this. I was too scared: Moscow and Leningrad were my priority.

P.S.: and just like me, you were a victim of the southern mega-pocket therefore you had the same forces.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I don't understand why he has such narrow penetrations, and yet most of his units are in stacks...you think he'd want to spread out a bit to defend his flanks more, prevent cut-offs. Can any German players shed any light on this?

Not that I consider myself a "German player" (I don't consider myself a Russian either for that matter), but I don't like the tactics Pelton used. I feel he gave the Russians just way too much to work with on the second turn across the front. I understand what Pelton is trying to do from his previous game tho. From Pelton's perspective and what he has posted, no one has stopped him yet, so in his mind, why change what he is doing?

Excellent counter moves by the Russian here and that Panzer division got a big time bloody nose to the tune of 1/3 of his tanks (granted, most of them were probably light tanks, but still) and a chunk of manpower. More importantly, that tossed him behind the river as well.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Tarhunnas, after seeing two of your AARs as Soviet, I can see I did something WRONG on my current game.

I weakened the South big time, in order to reinforce the center (then some of these forces went to Leningrad area). But your two games prove you can have a rather decent south (white units attached to Stavka: I totally evacuated them to the north) AND a strong position in the both the north and center.

TD, I thought that this was one of the most interesting parts of your strategy, and perhaps problematic for the Germans even if they reinforce their effort toward Lgrad. The thing about the south is that you have a lot more space to give up, so I found the idea of transferring forces from there intriguing, and I'm not sure it is wrong if you want to maximize your chances of keeping Lgrad and Moscow. Of course it also depends on where you opponent decides to focus.

[TulliusDetritus]

76mm, I 100% copied the Soviet strategy. The 16, 19, 21 Armies (in Ukraine) were sent to the center to contain the Germans to protect Moscow. I didn't invent anything (but true, few players did that). And yet, Tarhunnas is perhaps proving that you CAN be balanced after all [:)]

[Tarhunnas]

I have sent one infantry corps, the strong one that starts east of Rovno, to Pskov. And the stuff that starts at Chernigov all went north on my turn 2, so I have to some extent been favoring the north and center.

[Klydon]

I think you have to send some stuff north. Most of the re-enforcements show up around Moscow and south. Some show up around Leningrad, but they are not enough on their own. No question it is a juggling act however.