When?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

If someone here could show me it is worth the wait and its been handled properly I would appreciate a reply here or to my e-mail if you feel you don't like to offend Steve or Matrix. Could you please convince me that it is worth the wait, I am truly sorry for the negativity here but if I have an itch I usually scratch it.

it is really worth the wait ... the game is a perfect simulation of world in flames ...

i´m spending 6-8 hours a day playing/testing it. and I have a had a big influence on the game. making things more logical and easy to understand.

Thank you Michaelbaldur for your insight, I appreciate it, but do not understand the play/testing part, not being negative but play/testing what? Do you mean the actual game, and if so how close are you to completion? I have not posted for awhile because for some reason I get negative and that does not help things. Have to watch my paragraphs, trying to be careful Mich. Is everything ready to go like the board look or map look, all of the units etc.? What is the problem, rules, AI what? I understand bugs and such and most bugs will be found by the players after its released, only because there will be so many more hands in the pie so to speak. Thanks again Mich.

Bo

[lomyrin]

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

[bo]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

Don't be so sure about the age thing Lars, I said I was over 60[&:]I would have appreciated it more if you had clued me in on some of my questions about what the hold up might be[&o]

Bo

[lomyrin]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

Don't be so sure about the age thing Lars, I said I was over 60[&:]I would have appreciated it more if you had clued me in on some of my questions about what the hold up might be[&o]

Bo

I am sure about the age. My avatar is a ship I served on in my youth a very long time ago. I even remember vaguely the time at the end of the war in Europe because in the spring of 45 we skipped a lot of school because refugees were housed there. You are still a relative youngster with most likely quite a few years ahead of you.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

If someone here could show me it is worth the wait and its been handled properly I would appreciate a reply here or to my e-mail if you feel you don't like to offend Steve or Matrix. Could you please convince me that it is worth the wait, I am truly sorry for the negativity here but if I have an itch I usually scratch it.

it is really worth the wait ... the game is a perfect simulation of world in flames ...

i´m spending 6-8 hours a day playing/testing it. and I have a had a big influence on the game. making things more logical and easy to understand.

Thank you Michaelbaldur for your insight, I appreciate it, but do not understand the play/testing part, not being negative but play/testing what? Do you mean the actual game, and if so how close are you to completion? I have not posted for awhile because for some reason I get negative and that does not help things. Have to watch my paragraphs, trying to be careful Mich. Is everything ready to go like the board look or map look, all of the units etc.? What is the problem, rules, AI what? I understand bugs and such and most bugs will be found by the players after its released, only because there will be so many more hands in the pie so to speak. Thanks again Mich.

Bo

Bo,

Take a look at the most recent Monthly Report. Steve posted the full list of 128 bugs fixed in April. It should give you an idea of where things stand.

-Aaron

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

yes the game is playable ..very much so .. there are still some minor bug, and a few areas that still need to be coded ..

but the game looks very good ..

I can promise you that. as soon as the last supply issues are corrected.. I will post a north africa campaign ..

and I have heard that there will be posted at least 1 Asia/pacific campaign ..

[bo]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

Don't be so sure about the age thing Lars, I said I was over 60[&:]I would have appreciated it more if you had clued me in on some of my questions about what the hold up might be[&o]

Bo

I am sure about the age. My avatar is a ship I served on in my youth a very long time ago. I even remember vaguely the time at the end of the war in Europe because in the spring of 45 we skipped a lot of school because refugees were housed there. You are still a relative youngster with most likely quite a few years ahead of you.

Lars I can remember standing in line during ww2 hoping to get a piece of fleers bubble gum with my other school students, you imagine this, they were sending this gum to the GI's overseas and we were getting the left overs maybe! It shows you how the world and this country was screwed up when you could not get bubble gum[:-]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Yes, Michael means the actual game when he talks about playing and testing. As do I.

And although I am considerably older than you are Bo, I expect to see and play the released version one fine day.

Lars

yes the game is playable ..very much so .. there are still some minor bug, and a few areas that still need to be coded ..

but the game looks very good ..

I can promise you that. as soon as the last supply issues are corrected.. I will post a north africa campaign ..

and I have heard that there will be posted at least 1 Asia/pacific campaign ..

If you say so than I guess I have to accept what you are saying, also you seem very knowing about this product, but why are some saying next year? This does not make sense to me.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur



it is really worth the wait ... the game is a perfect simulation of world in flames ...

i´m spending 6-8 hours a day playing/testing it. and I have a had a big influence on the game. making things more logical and easy to understand.

Thank you Michaelbaldur for your insight, I appreciate it, but do not understand the play/testing part, not being negative but play/testing what? Do you mean the actual game, and if so how close are you to completion? I have not posted for awhile because for some reason I get negative and that does not help things. Have to watch my paragraphs, trying to be careful Mich. Is everything ready to go like the board look or map look, all of the units etc.? What is the problem, rules, AI what? I understand bugs and such and most bugs will be found by the players after its released, only because there will be so many more hands in the pie so to speak. Thanks again Mich.

Bo

Bo,

Take a look at the most recent Monthly Report. Steve posted the full list of 128 bugs fixed in April. It should give you an idea of where things stand.

-Aaron

I look every month at the reports and to be honest they seem to tell me and others here who shall remain hidden[;)]that we are a long way from being finished, I don't believe what I am about to say but hold up on the AI and get this game out.

Bo

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: bo



Thank you Michaelbaldur for your insight, I appreciate it, but do not understand the play/testing part, not being negative but play/testing what? Do you mean the actual game, and if so how close are you to completion? I have not posted for awhile because for some reason I get negative and that does not help things. Have to watch my paragraphs, trying to be careful Mich. Is everything ready to go like the board look or map look, all of the units etc.? What is the problem, rules, AI what? I understand bugs and such and most bugs will be found by the players after its released, only because there will be so many more hands in the pie so to speak. Thanks again Mich.

Bo

Bo,

Take a look at the most recent Monthly Report. Steve posted the full list of 128 bugs fixed in April. It should give you an idea of where things stand.

-Aaron

I look every month at the reports and to be honest they seem to tell me and others here who shall remain hidden[;)]that we are a long way from being finished, I don't believe what I am about to say but hold up on the AI and get this game out.

Bo

This is a fairly uneducated opinion, but I don't know if it's possible to give a definitive estimate of release. If you look at the reports, Steve has yet to crack 70 bugs. Yet he fixes 100+ each month. There are only a few left which are not relatively new reports. This is because every time a major group of bugs is resolved we can move into an area of the game previously unavailable. That means fresh material to create bugs we haven't seen before.

For example:
Two areas are currently in revision that are of great interest to the beta-team: Production and Overseas Supply. Steve is getting close on production. Supply has our hands tied when working with major operations. For the most part, this means the USA has had much less testing time than the other major powers. When this issue is resolved it will let us test for USA related bugs on a much larger scale. When that happens, well, I'm betting Steve won't be seeing the south side of 70 soon.

If the title were released today it would fail, and you'd hate it. Not because it isn't superb, but because it just isn't done. Steve puts in more hours than is reasonable. At a guess, I'd say the beta-testers put in a combined 700 to 1,000 hours or more each week. It's an extremely complex game. It takes that much time to test, record the results, and fix.
-----
Edit: I want to clarify. The reason you'd hate it is that the bugs being worked out now often have to with smoothing gameplay out and preventing glitch-type crashes. These aren't the kind of bugs that a paying end-user should expect from a finished product.
-----
Edit: Michael made me check my math. I'm asleep on the job, I guess. [>:] The beta-testers actually put in about 500 hours a week, not the higher number (700-1000).

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: bo

It was meant that way Michel but still nice to hear from number uno fanboy.

Bo

Come on, if you leave some spaces in your writing it's a lot easier to read. You want people to read you or not? That would help a lot if you want people to take you seriously.

Your hollow commentary on myself makes me doubt that you are over sixty, it does not show. [&:]

edited for typos

[bo]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: bo

It was meant that way Michel but still nice to hear from number uno fanboy.

Bo

Come on, if you leave some spaces in your writing it's a lot easier to read. You want people to read you or not? That would help a lot if you want people to take you seriously.

Your hollow commentary on myself makes me doubt that you are over sixty, it does not show. [&:]

edited for typos

Oh well, if someone disagrees with the fanboys we get all bent out of shape and very very huffy, unless someone shows some courage to challenge Matrix and get this game to the public we will still be having these little spirited conversations years from now. Sorry it is the way I feel right or wrong.

Bo

[micheljq]

deleted, waste of time & energy.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: bo

It was meant that way Michel but still nice to hear from number uno fanboy.

Bo

Come on, if you leave some spaces in your writing it's a lot easier to read. You want people to read you or not? That would help a lot if you want people to take you seriously.

Your hollow commentary on myself makes me doubt that you are over sixty, it does not show. [&:]

edited for typos

Oh well, if someone disagrees with the fanboys we get all bent out of shape and very very huffy, unless someone shows some courage to challenge Matrix and get this game to the public we will still be having these little spirited conversations years from now. Sorry it is the way I feel right or wrong.

Bo

all opinions are welcome ... we all want the same.

to make the perfect game and as fast as possible.

so if you have some ideas to make the progress go faster. then we will listen ..

the production team is not deaf, as all of my brilliant ideas have been incorporated into the game. and I just a simple tester[:D]

[bo]

Michaelbaldur you have always been a rational person with good common sense in all your posts and you did not come down on me because you believe that everyone has the right to express their opinion on this server hopefully with out malice, I was attacked in a round about way, I answered back and will always do so, if not, than get rid of these forums, because if they only have one slant they are stupid and useless. As for me having ideas to offer to Matrix to speed things up, no hope there whatsoever, I do not like the Matrix company for several reasons this is just one of them [WIF] read some of the posts on Storm over the Pacific and what went on there week after week. They should never have been allowed to purchase the rights to this game World in Flames, I feel the Battlefront group should have taken it instead but then again, just maybe they already knew that this game was too complicated to be done in a reasonable amount of time, 6 years is a little long in tooth. Again just an opinion right or wrong!

Bo

[michaelbaldur]

deleted

[macgregor]

Red Prince: This is a fairly uneducated opinion, but I don't know if it's possible to give a definitive estimate of release. If you look at the reports, Steve has yet to crack 70 bugs. Yet he fixes 100+ each month. There are only a few left which are not relatively new reports. This is because every time a major group of bugs is resolved we can move into an area of the game previously unavailable. That means fresh material to create bugs we haven't seen before.

This is an interesting point. I'm curious how far the playtesters have been able to get in a game. That would give us some idea of the progress vs. work left.

If these play testers are able to put in 7-9 hours most days, I've got to believe this is a lot of fun and that they're through a lot of the game.

What I know about Steve is that he's incredibly focused, and he's very successful. The game will come -though I'm with the pre-AI release crowd, I want it yesterday. Steve incorporated the AI from the ground floor and has attacked it with equal vigor. He possesses the kind of teachable, document-able approach to game strategy that is as scientific as I've ever seen, and perhaps thus conducive for developing an AI . I remember a long time ago when computer wif first showed up on ADG, him telling me how long it would take for an AI, and his estimate from that time has so far proved fairly accurate.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Red Prince: This is a fairly uneducated opinion, but I don't know if it's possible to give a definitive estimate of release. If you look at the reports, Steve has yet to crack 70 bugs. Yet he fixes 100+ each month. There are only a few left which are not relatively new reports. This is because every time a major group of bugs is resolved we can move into an area of the game previously unavailable. That means fresh material to create bugs we haven't seen before.

This is an interesting point. I'm curious how far the playtesters have been able to get in a game. That would give us some idea of the progress vs. work left.

If these play testers are able to put in 7-9 hours most days, I've got to believe this is a lot of fun and that they're through a lot of the game.

What I know about Steve is that he's incredibly focused, and he's very successful. The game will come -though I'm with the pre-AI release crowd, I want it yesterday. Steve incorporated the AI from the ground floor and has attacked it with equal vigor. He possesses the kind of teachable, document-able approach to game strategy that is as scientific as I've ever seen, and perhaps thus conducive for developing an AI . I remember a long time ago when computer wif first showed up on ADG, him telling me how long it would take for an AI, and his estimate from that time has so far proved fairly accurate.

I can't speak for the others, but I've been through about a year of the Global War scenario at least a half dozen times, and I've worked on some of the later starting ones, too. I'm working on conquest, liberation, and surrender bugs, so I'm trying to push through to at least the 2-3 year mark, often with uncontested takeovers to set up the bugs I'm trying to recreate. Vichy Declaration has been giving us some trouble, so for now I'm bypassing Vichy and simply conquering France.

The reason I've only played about a year each time is not due to bugs (well, once it was). Steve releases a new patch every 4-5 days, and a new full version about once a month. After several patches, and with each new version, I like to start a fresh game to keep my files clean. This does slow down the progress I make, but I've still managed to complete more than half the tests I've planned. Sometimes I have to restart because I've found a better way to test things. Other times I've tried too many things at once and it confuses the results. Lack of experience. I'm the new kid on the block, but I'm learning.

Meanwhile, most of the things we intend to test really only need a handful of turns to check. New bugs pop up while we're doing that. I'm pretty sure that you could get through an entire Global War even now. Getting through a full turn is easy enough, and you just have to string 36 of them together to complete a game. Granted, there are issues with some once-per-game events (like Vichy and the bugs I'm testing), but you can find ways around them if you want to finish the game.

Hope this gives you some idea of the state of the game.

-Aaron

[macgregor]

Thanks for that Aaron. So I guess with several play-testers, the fact that you received a new patch before encountering a problem simply means someone else got there first. Perhaps someone else is closer to finishing a game. Though considering that most problems should come early as later situations should already have been encountered, I find this encouraging.

Am I to assume that the hundred-so pages of rules have been coded into game and that it's now a question of getting them to cooperate with each other? That would be something. Though I realize this can be difficult.

I can't speak for everyone, but I find myself responding most to visual samples of the game. Could there be some way to start a thread where playtesters could document anything really, but include pics of the game?

[bo]

Red Prince [Aaron] What do you test as a playtester? Do you move a unit to different locations and see if any errors or bugs crop up? Do you check all the rules when you make that move such as is the unit in supply etc. I am not asking this in any negative way just curious as to what you face as a playtester, from what I understand there is no fog of war in the game which could be a headache in some games, is it all the rules that seem to complicate the completion of this game.

Bo