Offensive Disadvantage is Dire

[decaro]

They say that unless surprised, the defender has a 3:1 advantage.

Well, my offensive skills in PCO leave much to be desired: should I play on "easy" mode, or just use-up my arty by laying smoke (if available)?

[FNG]

A few things that spring to mind:

Push infantry as far forward as you can to spot threats/call in artillery. I rush scout cars between cover where possible to reveal hidden threats. Concentrate your force wherever possible.

When I first played Winterstorm and Kharkov, I was regularly getting my @ss handed to me in a hat. I guess like most games, once you get the feel for it things improve dramatically. Good luck!

Edit: Speed kills. Advance and Bound are good ways to keep armour alive.

[Mobius]

If you are on the attack there's no need to move all your units the first turn. Send a few ahead to see where the enemy is. Also, don't wait until you get a good clean shot on the enemy infantry if you find that they are firing at you. Use some of your firepower to area fire on their positions. Infantry have plenty of ammo, use some to try to suppress them. AT guns too can be knocked out by HE area fire. Or at least made to pause for awhile.

[decaro]

Tnx for the advice, but a few observations from personal experience with Kharkov.
 
Unless motorized, infantry moves slowly over large areas, and I don't always get scout cars.
 
I've used both "Advance" and "Bound," but I'm wondering if the latter is safer?
Maybe I should try a "V" formation for my Axis armour?
 
Not moving all my Axis units at the start could result in high losses during a first-turn Soviet barrage.
 
Comparing the Kharkov tutorial with the PCO version, Soviet AT guns seem much more effective now, or were they simply up-gunned for the new game?
 
Anyway, PCO is a welcomed challenge, but continually losing in offensive battles the Axis historically won will eventually get frustrating.
 
Maybe PCO will patch a Guderian modifier? I could use an experienced panzer commander.

[Mobius]

In the Karkov scenario you may have to reposition in the set up to pull back out of sight of the Soviet artillery observers.

The AT guns are a little harder to hit in PCO as hull down in gun pits protect fully the lower parts of the AT gun. Use artillery on them plus use AP on them if they can be sighted or use HE area fire when they can't. Light 20mm guns can also be used against AT guns. As well as anti-tank rifles and 50mm mortars.

Now on the other side if you play Russians they have good anti-tank rifles which can be turned into AT-gun killers if they can get close.

[ComradeP]

Unless motorized, infantry moves slowly over large areas, and I don't always get scout cars.

I have yet to find a use for the trucks, most maps are too small or feature too exposed terrain to consider placing infantry in something as vulnerable as a truck. They might have their uses on 2000mx2000m maps, though.

I'd say the usefulness of scout cars really depends on what kind you get. If you're the Soviets, your scout cars generally have reasonably decent armour and pack a decent punch early in the war, but as soon as they switch to BA-20's and BA-64's, you end up with an armoured MG with limited mobility. I haven't really found a use for the Sd.Kfz. 222's yet, as their armour is so thin that everybody and their mothers will start firing at them, which buttons them up, which in turn means that they will have a lesser Sighting value than an unbuttoned tank (even with their scout bonus). I guess I could work with the Sd.Kfz 231 or late war armoured cars or halftracks as they offer more mobility and/or protection.

I've used both "Advance" and "Bound," but I'm wondering if the latter is safer?
Maybe I should try a "V" formation for my Axis armour?

Unless the map's flat as a pancake, I'd advise against using Bound with vehicles as it can quickly lead to situations where the lead tank is fired at by something the rest of the tanks can't see. The effect of grass and undergrowth on LOS can be quite substantial it seems. I generally move my tanks in a line, and although that presents more targets to the enemy, it also allows me to concentrate fire on the same target with more than 1 tank.

I've more or less stopped using Advance and now mostly use Engage>Move and Defend>Move or Rush if I want my tanks to go somewhere in a hurry.

Not moving all my Axis units at the start could result in high losses during a first-turn Soviet barrage.

There won't be a turn 1 (or turn 3 or so, due to the orders delay if they can't spot something in the first orders phase) barrage if they can't see your units. Due to the Soviets getting substantial amounts of heavy artillery in my random campaign, I try to keep most of my units hidden or moving on turn 1 now.

I'd suggest advancing fairly slowly and methodically until you know where the main threats are located and until they've been disabled, unless you can use the terrain to your advantage. This might be the Blitzkrieg, but like the excerpts from the training manual in the loading screen make clear: being hasty is never an excuse for taking losses. Take your time.

[Mad Russian]

The biggest thing I can tell you is to take it slow. You're not in a race.

You can start to maneuver a lot after you determine where the enemy is. Until then take your time. The 3F's work well in PCO.

Find them.
Fix them.
Finish them.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Zakhal]

Not that different from steel panthers? When I played that years ago I always bought tons of cheap scouts to send as first wave. And hide my troops to the last moment if possible. In meeting engagements there was always race for hills/high ground.

[Mad Russian]

I don't know about other systems or even other's scenarios, but when I do Meeting Engagements they aren't a rush to the flag.

Historically, Meeting Engagements have two objectives.

1) Take ground.

2) Destroy enemy units while keeping your own losses as minimal as possible.

Take ground to me doesn't mean 1 square meter of it. It means several points of the dominating terrain on the map. That keeps an ME from becoming a race to the flag everytime.

Destroy enough enemy units and you get to take ground pretty easily.

Maybe we need to start a scenario design thread here like The Proving Grounds has.

If there's enough of an interest that could be done.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Take ground to me doesn't mean 1 square meter of it. It means several points of the dominating terrain on the map. That keeps an ME from becoming a race to the flag everytime.

In steel panthers the most central high ground often was the dominating terrain. You could hide behind it, do shoot and scoot and spot artillery fire. The one who reached it first often won.

Of course it depends on the scenario map. The random maps I played in spwaw always had some hills.

[MarkShot]

I wanted to ask does getting flanked positionally and receiving fire from multiple directions have an added negative impact on defenders?

I thought I asked this a couple of years ago and the answer was "no". But I'll ask again.

Thanks.

[thewood1]

I find keeping the SOP for recon helps the "recon by death" issue in most tactical games.  Keep in mind this is tactical recon and not strategic recon.  You know contact is right around every corner.

[Mad Russian]

There could be some scenarios right around the next corner that do a plausible job of highlighting recon units.

Dangerous Information is a adaption of an old ASL scenario that uses recon in a bit different setting as well.

Good Hunting.

MR

[junk2drive]

RE Steel Panthers, IGOUGO plays different that WEGO when it comes to objectives. First turn often gets to the objective first.

PCO does not have a turn limit. There cannot be a flag rush with turns running out. Often the flags are worth 1 point and are just there to guide the AI. I have battled for a flag with a 30 point armoured car and my 2 point Russian troops. Trying to keep 15 squads alive against a MG equipped AC is not easy.

RE Trucks, I am playing an infantry campaign. I have a company of troops, some guns, 3 trucks and 3 platoons of MG34s. The last battle was on a 1k map with an orchard in the middle and trees on my side of the map. I set one MG platoon right, one left, one with the trucks in hiding. Later in the battle when I saw a need for MG support, I used the trucks to move the platoon. After that I received a reinforcement of a mortar platoon. I used the trucks to move them into place.
This ended up being a 45 turn battle and I was fairly sure that the enemy guns and OBA were out of the battle before moving the trucks. Trucks can be of use but when the time is right. A 20-30 turn battle, maybe not.

[junk2drive]

These are the tooltips that display for the different order types.

<resource id="Advance.tip"
value="Half Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Rush.tip" value="Fast Move with No Fire">
</resource>
<resource id="Charge.tip"
value="Fast Move with No Fire - No Stop for Casualties">
</resource>
<resource id="Bound.tip"
value="Alternating Normal Move with Cover Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Engage.tip" value="General Purpose Attack Order">
</resource>
<resource id="Regroup.tip" value="Reorganize Platoon Formation">
</resource>
<resource id="Regroup_Line.tip"
value="Fast Move to Line Formation with No Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Regroup_Column.tip"
value="Fast Move to Column Formation with No Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Regroup_Wedge.tip"
value="Fast Move to Wedge Formation with No Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Withdraw.tip" value="Reverse Move with Fire">
</resource>
<resource id="Defend.tip" value="General Purpose Defend Order">
</resource>
<resource id="Engage_Move.tip" value="Normal Move with Fire">
</resource>
<resource id="Engage_Hold.tip"
value="No Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Engage_Facing.tip"
value="Face Change with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Engage_Target.tip"
value="No Move with Individually Targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_Stay.tip"
value="No Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_Move.tip"
value="Slow Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_Facing.tip"
value="Face Change with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_HoldFire.tip" value="Hold Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_HoldGood.tip"
value="Unless Good Shot to Target"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_HoldClose.tip"
value="Unless in Close Assault Range"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_HoldAll.tip" value="Hold All Fire">

Notice the ones with fire and no fire. Defend>Move is limited to 20m. I find it works well for sub squad orders once contact is made in woods and orchards. Better than nothing in clear.

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
I've used both "Advance" and "Bound," but I'm wondering if the latter is safer?

I prefer to use "Bound" in Meeting Engagements or when defending, "Advance" when I am the attacker.

[ComradeP]

Defend>Move is limited to 20m.

49(50) meters.

[junk2drive]

You can tell that I have been playing with infantry and you have been with armour. [:D]

Manual

Maximum movement per
turn using this order is 50m for vehicles and 20m for troops.

[Mobius]

Plus you only move in the orders phase. You halt in the reaction phase. Then finish your move in the next orders phase if the tank hasn't reached its final point.

[ComradeP]

You can tell that I have been playing with infantry and you have been with armour.

Ah, yes, it makes sense that the limits are different.