I have a problem with Soviet OOBs

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sat Dec 16, 2000 1:07 pm

When platoons of Guards Riflemen dont have any guys in them. I looked at the oob editor and it said that a platoon had 3 rifle squads, but in the game I get nothing. When you go to the Gds rifle company you get the support units, but no rifle squads. Is anyone else getting this problem??

Tomo

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Sat Dec 16, 2000 11:22 pm

F#1075 Guards Plt has 3 units U#119 SO Guard Inf.

Availability dates are Oct.'41-'49 for Plt and Co, but Oct.'43-'49 for the Unit.

So you won't get any grunts from Oct.'41 to Sep'43

Arralen

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sat Dec 16, 2000 11:31 pm

Arralen, could you check if IS-3 armor is way too thin? It should be closer to IS-4 than IS-2.

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 12:35 am

IS-3 turret armor is 110mm at thinnest point. It should be 110-220mm all round (165mm average) according to Russian Military Zone.
http://history.vif2.ru/is3.html

[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited December 16, 2000).]

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 2:03 am

Thanks Arralen. That helps, I can modify the oobs for the time being...

Tomo

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 3:39 am

The thickness is only a part of the "effectiveness" of armor...the slope is in many ways more important. While the thickness is given as the "low" end, the slope of 50 gives a proper "average" thickness. The compound sloping shape is impossible to model correctly, but the current stats give a good representaion of "average" armor performance.

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 4:24 am

IS-3 hull armor and slopes in that RMZ diagram are identical with SPWAW. So the turret armor numbers (110-220mm) without angles on the diagram are effective armor?

[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited December 16, 2000).]

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 6:23 am

The thicknesses shown on the diagram are actual thickness of metal, not effective thickness. The turret is cast so its effective thickness is less than RHA by about 10%. The game engine randomizes the incidence angle by +/- 15 degrees in the horizontal and from -6 to +3 or so in vertical, so the 110 RHA (say 125 Cast) at an angle between 44 and 53 in vertical is an effective thickness of between 185 and 250

The diagram shows a turret thickness that varies for 110 to 220mm and a slope that varies from about 40 to 55 degrees (but is curved so its not possible to represent by a single "block" the 110@50 degrees is an approximation. Might it be "more realistic" to call it 130@43, or 105@60 or something else, that's a judgement call...I picked 110@50 based on an "averaging" model I think is close

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 6:36 am

Thanks Paul.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 9:39 am

Originally posted by Tombstone:
When platoons of Guards Riflemen dont have any guys in them. Tomo

This should be fixed in the patch.
Let me know if you find new errors or old unreported errors.

Stuart Millis

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 10:06 am

Kharan: I, too, believe that the IS-3 turret armor is too weak, but this is an old issue that has been beaten into the ground weeks and weeks ago. So I won't start that whole thing up again.

The good news is that, as with almost any aspect of SPWaW, the best way to handle your own vision of the "way it should be" is to simply go into the OOBs and edit them until you are happy. Makes it easier to sleep at night that way.

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 8:26 pm

I got one for ya. Maybe its just me, or maybe I suck at this game but it seems that when I'm the Soviets evrything is crap! Rifle squads cant kill a gnat, they run from a fight ect, T34s never kill anything and usually get killed by the first Tiger shot they take. However when I play the Germans
t34s routinly kill tigers, inf never retreats and they seem to superhuman! whats the deal or am I a poor player??

------------------
NC
Airborne Sappers Lead the way!!
SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sun Dec 17, 2000 11:53 pm

I'm playing a russia v germany pbem battle in 1943 right now and the russians (me) seem to be doing ok... However, sometimes I feel like the computer is screwing me over, but I know it's not really happening... I think.

Tomo

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 2:59 am

Originally posted by ncpanther:
I got one for ya. Maybe its just me, or maybe I suck at this game but it seems that when I'm the Soviets evrything is crap! Rifle squads cant kill a gnat, they run from a fight ect, T34s never kill anything and usually get killed by the first Tiger shot they take. However when I play the Germans
t34s routinly kill tigers, inf never retreats and they seem to superhuman! whats the deal or am I a poor player??

Hate to say it but it may be tactics. I've just about finished the "Heros" campaign, and learned a few lessons after starting over twice. First, the Soviets are VERY sensitive to crew quality. This is due to low gunnery ratings, primarily "Stab" which is a one (two man turret with the TC acting as gunner), in T-34/76s. This is bad, real bad. Compound this with experience levels from 50 to 60 and your T-34s only get one low % shot per turn. In campaigns KEEP YOU CREWS ALIVE. As their experience goes up you get more shots at higher % to hit. Veteran T-34s in 1941 truely DOMINATE Germain armor. In 1941 and early '42 TRUST YOUR ARMOR. You wont be killing tanks very quickly but neither will he! In all games keep your platoons tightly packed, close the range and shoot three tanks at each target (alternately to break up his op fire). Use mob tactics to increase your hits. This gets harder later in the war as German AT fire gets more lethal. Buy Guards tanks. Buy KVs, they're less vulnerable, they get more shots and hit more often. I'm not sure but I think they also get the EXP/Moral bonus as well (in my experience they have higher numbers than average in both). Look at working a couple KV-1M41's with each company of T-34s. The '34s can keep him busy while the KVs get kills. Against Tigers and Panthers you need 85s. The T-34/85 is a great tank! It has a three man turret which vastly improves its shots on target (crew quality is still vital) and the 85 will kill Tigers at some distance (haven't labed this out yet). You'll need APCR for Panthers frontally. HOWEVER, note the Panther's weekness! Very thin side armor. A BT can do a Panther from 10 hexes (provided he can hit it!). USE YOUR SPEED!!! Your tanks are much, much, much faster. USE IT! By simple math he's not going to have many Panthers. Use covered approaches (create them with smoke) and mob him. Veterans in T-34 M43s will kill Panthers if you mob them and get flank shots at close range. Finally the best solution for a Panther is an Il-2m. Historically you should meet 4-5 PZKW III/IVs or their variants for every Panther or Tiger you meet. Frankly, I'm not afraid of PzIVs or Marders (Nashorns DO worry me). Gut it out.
In truth the Soviets probably have the best tank OB in the game, learn to use it. If you played SPI FORGET EVERYTHING, Start over and learn by playing.

For infantry, have you noticed the TWO rifles available? I'm a bit of a gun nut so when I saw the Tokarev M40 I thought "can't be". It is. This was a early Semi-auto Rifle issued in some numbers, think Garand!!! It triples the HE factor of your rifle fire!
Cheap to, a must buy! (The actual rifle was a failure, piculiarities of the Russian 7.62 case and design problems caused frequent breakage in the action; the motivation for the SKS and the 7.62X39 round to be made famous by the AK-47)

And yes the AI cheats! Much less in this version though! Thank the makers the Arty cheats have FINALLY been eliminated. I've yet to catch the AI shelling where it shouldn't! It does get extra shots on target however! I recently counted off 8 shots from a PzIIIg, THAT MOVED! I don't get that when I play the IIIg. As with ALL wargames there are going to be some things we don't agree with (wargamer since Panzerblitz was the standard) work with what works.

Musashi

Miku · Post by **Miku** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 4:19 pm

Is it just me, but it seems that AI on Soviet
side does not buy any Scout cars? I am playing the WW2-campaign on German side, and
have played 4 battles against Soviet so far, and have not seen a single Scout car... kind a relief actually, because their 47mm guns would be quite troublesome.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Mon Dec 25, 2000 4:24 pm

Originally posted by Miku:
Is it just me, but it seems that AI on Soviet side does not buy any Scout cars?

Check on the "scores" screen if it really does not buy them - I'm not shure if the "retreating bug" is fixed in v4.5 .

Could be the case that they simply retreat immidatly when the battle starts

Arralen