Comparing WitE with TOAWIII

[BigDuke66]

TOAWIII has some very big scenarios under it "Fire in the East" covering the Second World War in the East now GG's "War in the East" does the same and I would like to know if that game essential kills scenarios like "Fire in the East"(or it's PO Variant "D21") or even more all east front scenarios for TOAWIII.
So please if any TOAWIII player has also has played WitE I(and I guess several others) would like to hear his opinion about the game and how big the "threat" is for TOAWIII.

[E]

Can't say... I'm waiting for the patches to die down to a reasonable response level from those who have the time to restart monster campaigns. Although, I am starting to wish I had held off a year on the purchase.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: E

Can't say... I'm waiting for the patches to die down to a reasonable response level from those who have the time to restart monster campaigns. Although, I am starting to wish I had held off a year on the purchase.

Amen to that. I feel I've wasted $80. I wish they had a demo for such an expensive game. IMO the game mechanics are more suitable for a North Africa game.

As for being a threat for TOAW. It covers one front. That's it. And I don't like the way it does it. You can move each unit and conduct combats with that one unit as long as it has movement points. Then you can do the same with the next unit. IMO it's a crappy way to model time and space. Makes it appear more of a game and less of a historical model. I'm sure the WitE fanbois would tell you how wrong I am. [:D]

BTW, the Axis will never win with two evenly matched players. No way possible. Too many historical things hardwired.

Let me add. I've been playing wargames since 1972. Lost count how many and the number of publishers long ago. At one time I owned about two hundred of them. SPI War in the East/War in Europe was one of them. DNO. FitE. Scorched Earth. I still have a few of my favorites. So I do have a basis on which to judge whether or not a game is any good. GG WitE is an ok game. But it's not an $80 game.

[Raver508]

For what its worth, I've been playing it for about 6 weeks now, and I really love WITE. I'm not saying its the perfect game, but it is a big improvement on TOAW in my opinion. Its weaknesses are that it doesnt have production, and of course that the map is hardwired so you can only play the eastern front. It does have a huge following and the makings of a very dedicated community, a reasonably slick interface, and pretty good command and control routines. Best game I've played for quite a while.

As for whether its worth $80, I think that all depends on perspective. If I compare it with games in other genres that I've bought for $80 - first person shooters, role playing games, etc, then its worth double that.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Panama

Amen to that. I feel I've wasted $80. I wish they had a demo for such an expensive game.

As for being a threat for TOAW. It covers one front. That's it. And I don't like the way it does it. You can move each unit and conduct combats with that one unit as long as it has movement points. Then you can do the same with the next unit. IMO it's a crappy way to model time and space. [:D]

I always thought/hoped it would use the kind of "plotted movement" we know from WiR but too was disappointed when i learned how it does do these things. For me this is a no-go, despite the game's other features.
Also i am big fan of WEGO, too bad the only promising project using WEGO got ..whatever.. infinitely delayed, abandoned.. talking about Combined Arms WWII.

[Panama]

I'm still scratching my head over why it costs so much. The vast majority of research was already done by others and pulled together into easy to get formats. Glantz, Zaloga, Sharp, Carrol and too many Russian authors to mention. So it couldn't have been on a research basis.

They took the easy way out on the OOB making only the initial OOB historic down to battalion level. After 1942 you make fairly what you feel you need. Now if they had thrown together a historical OOB through the entire war to battalion level I would have been very impressed. They didn't.

I can't recall where I read this but the game is supposed to be based on SPI War in the East. Well, it takes place in the Soviet Union. It starts in 1941, it's about the East Front and it has some kind of production. That is how much is based on the SPI game which used the more logical movement phase/combat phase type of format.

I have to say it is somewhat like many other East Front games in that there are no Axis victory conditions that can take place before 1945 other than the Soviets over running Berlin. No optional what if available. Too many historical happenings hardwired regardless of what is happening on the battlefield.

Don't get me wrong. It's a fun game to play as the Axis in 1941/1942. And fun to play as the Soviet late 1942 to the end. But, if the Soviet can move more than 50% production capacity beyond the reach of the Axis they have in excess of historical production. It's does not seem that hard to move more then that 50% if you play against a fair Soviet player.

The road to scenarios are kind of fun too. There needs to be more scenarios actually. Forget the Grand Campaigns.

Then again, there is that $80 price tag.

[larryfulkerson]

Knowing now what I know now ( several badly needed patches to "fix" things ) I think maybe I wouldn't spend $80 on this game but if somebody gives it to me for free ( like Kevin did ) then yeah, I'll play it against 4 PBEM opponents at the same time.  TOAW it's not, way too much has been abstracted out of existence, like blowing / rebuilding bridges, and digging in after you finish moving a unit, complete control over your arty to support or not support attacks, and air support is more complicated than it needs be for the Soviet player ( air bases have to be under control of the same "Front" HQ unit to lend support to attacks to any given ground unit under that Front HQ ).  I've owned the game for about 10 weeks now and I'm getting to know the intimate details of gameplay and I've scaled the cliff of the learning curve and it's becoming second nature to know the game mechanics..........now I just need to learn the best ways to do things tactically and strategically.  I'm still learning because I've always been the Soviet player in all my games.  One of these days I'll have to play the AI as the Axis and see how the other side plays.  It's not a "bad" game ( version 1.04.14 ) but there's way more mouse clicking to get things done than I'd like.  Not the click fest that WITP-AE is but similar. 

[E]

ORIGINAL: Panama

ORIGINAL: E

Can't say... I'm waiting for the patches to die down to a reasonable response level from those who have the time to restart monster campaigns. Although, I am starting to wish I had held off a year on the purchase.

Amen to that. I feel I've wasted $80. I wish they had a demo for such an expensive game. ... GG WitE is an ok game. But it's not an $80 game.

I don't feel I wasted $80.00. Probably about $10. Maybe $20. I should have waited for a sale after the patching is pretty much done. As for the base price, the only real apples to apples comparison I can make is with the original War In Russia, which cost me $79.95 for my Apple II in the early-mid 80's (and I don't mind saying that $80 back then, felt like a whole lot more than it does today). So for me, the price point is actually very, very good in these decades of skyrocketing inflation.

[BigDuke66]

Can someone confirm that you can't see the AI movements nor battles he fought?
I can't really imaging to play TOAW without reviewing the enemies turn and his moves, and if it's so with WitE I'm quite disappointed.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Can someone confirm that you can't see the AI movements nor battles he fought?
I can't really imaging to play TOAW without reviewing the enemies turn and his moves, and if it's so with WitE I'm quite disappointed.

You can see what the AI is doing as it is doing it. You get to see the same results graphics as you do when it's your turn. Not sure about PBEM though.

BTW. It's still way overpriced. Don't care who made it. Costs too much.