1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Pelton

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the current state of Soviet production:
Notice that there aren't any I-153's or I-16's listed even though I have thousands of them in the "pool".

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the OOB:

[Klydon]

Just remember.. "situation hopeless, am attacking.. " are good words to live by as a Russian. [:)]

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Klydon
Just remember.. "situation hopeless, am attacking.. " are good words to live by as a Russian. 

I like that saying. I've gotta make a bumper sticker out of that.

Here's what the pocket looks like after I moved the Soviet stuff. I railed in all the not-quite-ready-for-prime-time troops I built just two
turns ago ( they unfroze last turn ), and that's all the reserve I had left. If this doesn't work there's going to be quite a gap in the lines.

[Sabre21]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Just remember.. "situation hopeless, am attacking.. " are good words to live by as a Russian. [:)]

If you look at my signature, that was a quote from the French Marshall Foch of WWI fame. It seems to apply well to the WitE Soviet player in 41.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what Pelton did in his turn 60:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the best I could do to close the breeches in the front lines:

[randallw]

If I am reading the map correctly his operating railhead is not very close up to the units pushing forward, currently west of Saransk.

Your OOB shows that you have 5.6 million dudes and a large artillery superiority.  It shouldn't be an easy victory for your opponent.

[Speedysteve]

Larry are you attacking at all? It seems like you're the one reacting all of the time and being passive. You also, IMO, should be placing some light checkerboard behind those lines and have reserve armies of Cavalry and Tk Corps. Do you have these yet?

[randallw]

That Tamboy area looks like something critical in the Axis supply network; a sacrificial attack by a single airborne brigade might give Pelton some trouble.  He can't be strong everywhere, just by the fact that there are skirmish lines of infantry divisions, and not a solid unbroken line.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Speedy
Larry are you attacking at all?

Only in selected spots. The Soviets are facing MUCH more powerful units and any attacking would automatically fail.

ORIGINAL: Speedy
You also, IMO, should be placing some light checkerboard behind those lines and have reserve armies of Cavalry and Tk Corps. Do you have these yet?

There aren't any units to do that with. And I'm perpetually out of AP's and can't build any Cav or tank Corps.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the pocket before any Soviet movement in turn 61:
It's looking more and more like I should just face the music and just resign.

[paullus99]

Larry - attacking may seem like suicide, but you have to try to inflict losses at every opportunity - especially on his infantry. Although this game may be over hopefully, next time around you need to attempt a more active defense. You've let your opponent mass his forces at will & if you don't apply pressure (and winning isn't so much the point in 1941 & 1942) he'll continue to just run right over you. Getting your units blooded & experienced is key.

Again, next time around try a much more active strategy & beat up on his infantry - he doesn't have an unlimited number of troops or replacements - make him pay, pay, and pay some more.

[cpt flam]

another thing to remember Larry, soviet units having low strength you won't have much in a hex with 2 units from different command
i know you have been hard pressed very long time , but from pictures you had a mixed front
each unit retreating lead to lesser force
hope for you better luck next time

[Peltonx]

Thanks for the game Larry, you lasted longer then anyone esle todate.

Hope to meet you on the field of battle again in the future.

Your former enemy and now friend.

Pelton

[Ridgeway]

Here's the pocket before any Soviet movement in turn 61:
It's looking more and more like I should just face the music and just resign.

Larry --

I am glad you continued as long as you did -- to me there is no shame in losing (otherwise I would long since have died of shame, or at least have moved into exile). But what your game showed is that if the German is able to inflict really heavy losses (especially to tanks) and conquer a lot of territory, the Soviets will have a hard time bouncing back. It seems like despite the fact that your manpower is back up over 5mm men, your units are still very brittle and unsuited to offensive operations. This "feels" right to me.

I had a big concern that it does not matter how well the Germans do in 1941, the Soviet offensive position in 1942 will be somewhere between very good and optimal -- i.e. that they would be 12-18 months ahead of schedule. This game allays some of those concerns.

Thanks again.

-Mike

[Peltonx]

Larry took the least amount of losses of my 3 games that have made it to winter. He lost allot production and most of his losses came because of capture.

I beleive his loss of production coupled with low moral made his units brittle so to speak. I also only lost about 600,000 men by Jan 1st 1942, which was 1 mil less then my other 2 games. No matter how many loses the russian takes hes going to have 5.7 to 6.5 million troops come the summer of 42. Seems to be a hard cap at about 6.7million.

The only question is will the Russian units be any good?

The German player needs a good 1941, but also needs a good summer of 42. The Russian player has to pay aps to replase units, so if you get a few good size pockets in the spring you should have a very good summer.

Thanks again Larry I learned allot about winter/spring and summer of 1942.




Pelton

Pelton

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Seems to be a hard cap at about 6.7million.

Actually I seem to be stuck at 6.98 million in the summer of 1942, have been at 6.9+ million for several turns.

[Peltonx]

I say there is a cap for sure, your pool filling up?

[Ridgeway]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Larry took the least amount of losses of my 3 games that have made it to winter. He lost allot production and most of his losses came because of capture.

I beleive his loss of production coupled with low moral made his units brittle so to speak. I also only lost about 600,000 men by Jan 1st 1942, which was 1 mil less then my other 2 games. No matter how many loses the russian takes hes going to have 5.7 to 6.5 million troops come the summer of 42. Seems to be a hard cap at about 6.7million.

The only question is will the Russian units be any good?

The German player needs a good 1941, but also needs a good summer of 42. The Russian player has to pay aps to replase units, so if you get a few good size pockets in the spring you should have a very good summer.

Thanks again Larry I learned allot about winter/spring and summer of 1942.




Pelton

Pelton

Given what I have seen in the AARs, the Germans' ability to have a good '42 is contingent on their inflicting huge tank losses on the Russians (both in terms of battle casualties/surrenders and estroyed production), and keeping their morale down. To keep their morale down, the German must minimize the number of lost battles -- that means no unnecessary hasty attacks where the outcome could be in doubt. I could be wrong, but "wins" seem to have a multiplier effect on the Soviet units -- as a unit wins more battles, its morale goes up, which in turn increases its CV. Moreover, once it gets to 5 wins (I think), it can get Guards status, which further increases morale and thus further increases CV. Conversely, every loss has a good chance of decreasing the German unit's morale.

Killing manpower in and of itself seems to be a pointless task, because the Russians will be at 5+ million in 1942 no matter what -- the big question is whether that 5+ million is a viable fighting force, of if it will retain its 1941 "brittleness".

As far as I can tell in your game vs Larry, you had very few lost battles, which would have kept your manpower and morale up, while Larry's troop morale stayed low. This seems to have outweighed the fact that you ceased your offensive sooner than you possibly could have, and caused probably a million or so fewer manpower losses on Larry than I have seen others inflict in 1941.