Defenders Assault Designation?

[LarryP]

I did a search in both manuals and never found an explanation for the Defenders Assault Designation dialog box. Can someone explain exactly what this does? When I click the top row of my units, a maroon colored arrow points south. I'm lost?! This of course is during the Assault Defense turn.

[PirateJock]

It means that you've set the units' posture to withdraw ... in other words they're going to try and run away! Click on them again and it will disappear. In the manual it describes it as a 'W'??

Cheers

[LarryP]

OK. Why would it show my two artillery units when they are out of harms way? I have no deen to withdraw them. In the picture of my original post they are on the bottom line.

Even though I have the option to Withdraw during my Movement phase, I still can Withdraw during this Defenders Assault Designation too? Seems redundant to me...

[Max 86]

I think those arrows mean that the unit can attempt to withdraw prior to the assault. Selecting the Artys will bring those guns into action against all assaulting units in multiple hexes. This will be explained better in the Player's manual.

Don't forget the Player's manual is in the Draft stage at this point and this type of clarification / discussion is just what we need from everyone to finish it.

The way the phases play out, moving your unit may be too late or too soon before any enemy units move adjacent. Remember this withdraw happens during the ENEMY's assault and not during your turn.

[PirateJock]

Hi Larry

From your image ... the 3 units on the top line are the one's in the hex being assaulted while the 2 Artillery units are able to give supporting defensive fires on all of the attacker's units. If you select some/all of the 3 units being assaulted the selected units will change their posture to Withdraw ... so they'll be more interesting in getting away than trying to defend the hex. You can still use the artillery to support the unit withdraws. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers

[Fred98]

I was testing this only last night.

In the screen shot above, none of the artillery units are selected. If you select one or both, the selected one(s) will be included in the combat. The artillery does not withdraw unless it is in the hex being assaulted.

If you select a ground unit you get the purple arrow. You can select some and not select others. The defence value of the selected unit or units is now set to x 1.25 normal. The unit or units will always withdraw after combat.

After combat, the unit(s) is/are switched to Attack posture and is/are given movement points based upon a formula in the manual.

There are exceptions and some will not withdraw. Terrain and enemy ZOC affect how far a unit can withdraw and can stop a withdrawal.

Sometimes in combat we get a message that a unit is withdrawing but it does not do so. Terrain and enemy ZOC should have had no effect and this point remains a mystery

When a unit withdraws, it takes a withdrawal check which might lead to further Disruption and or it might take a hit.

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[Fred98]

Below are notes I made

Withdrawal occurs in 2 ways:
1. A unit in any posture, may be forced to withdraw as a result of combat.
2. A unit that adopted a withdrawal posture MUST withdraw during the withdrawal phase if adjacent to an enemy unit.

•A player can change the posture of a unit to Withdraw, only when the unit is adjacent to an enemy unit.

•During the Assault Phase, the Non-Phasing player can change the posture of defending units to Withdraw, if the hex is being assaulted.

•A unit that begins the movement phase in an enemy ZOC, must change its posture to Withdraw, to be able to move away. And will do so during the withdrawal phase.

•When a unit is in Withdraw posture, its defence is x 1.25 normal. For AT units, defence is unaffected.

•When we reach the withdrawal phase, if a unit is in Withdraw posture and is adjacent to an enemy unit it MUST withdraw.

•If a unit is not in withdrawal posture and is attacked, it may become disrupted. If so, it will take a Quality Check. If it fails the QC it will withdraw. Units at disruption levels 3 or 4 will withdraw automatically.

•Every with drawing unit must take a Withdrawal check. Additional Disruption and or hits may result.

•Withdrawal occurs during the Advance/ Withdrawal phase.

•The Phasing player withdraws first. The Non-Phasing player withdraws second.

•Any unit that withdraws will switch to Assault posture.

Variables that increase the likelihood of a withdrawal:

-

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Sometimes in combat we get a message that a unit is withdrawing but it does not do so. Terrain and enemy ZOC should have had no effect and this point remains a mystery
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This was going to be my next question about this, why they don't usually withdraw and stay where they were before the phase finished. Mystery, good way to put it. [:)]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: PirateJock

Hi Larry

From your image ... the 3 units on the top line are the one's in the hex being assaulted while the 2 Artillery units are able to give supporting defensive fires on all of the attacker's units. If you select some/all of the 3 units being assaulted the selected units will change their posture to Withdraw ... so they'll be more interesting in getting away than trying to defend the hex. You can still use the artillery to support the unit withdraws. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers

This all makes perfect sense, and I appreciate your time on this. Sometimes the artillery units won't let me select them and this makes me wonder why they are even shown?! Seems wrong to me.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Sometimes the artillery units won't let me select them......

To select 2 artilley units I suspect they both need to be under the same commanding HQ but this is not yet confirmed in my experiments.

To select any 1 arty unit, I suspect they need to be under the same command as the ground troops they are assisting. This too is not yet confirmed. It would explain why they cannot be selected.

-

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Below are notes I made

Withdrawal occurs in 2 ways:
1. A unit in any posture, may be forced to withdraw as a result of combat.
2. A unit that adopted a withdrawal posture MUST withdraw during the withdrawal phase if adjacent to an enemy unit.

•A player can change the posture of a unit to Withdraw, only when the unit is adjacent to an enemy unit.

•During the Assault Phase, the Non-Phasing player can change the posture of defending units to Withdraw, if the hex is being assaulted.

•A unit that begins the movement phase in an enemy ZOC, must change its posture to Withdraw, to be able to move away. And will do so during the withdrawal phase.

•When a unit is in Withdraw posture, its defence is x 1.25 normal. For AT units, defence is unaffected.

•When we reach the withdrawal phase, if a unit is in Withdraw posture and is adjacent to an enemy unit it MUST withdraw.

•If a unit is not in withdrawal posture and is attacked, it may become disrupted. If so, it will take a Quality Check. If it fails the QC it will withdraw. Units at disruption levels 3 or 4 will withdraw automatically.

•Every with drawing unit must take a Withdrawal check. Additional Disruption and or hits may result.

•Withdrawal occurs during the Advance/ Withdrawal phase.

•The Phasing player withdraws first. The Non-Phasing player withdraws second.

•Any unit that withdraws will switch to Assault posture.

Variables that increase the likelihood of a withdrawal:

-

I've found much of this true too, but sometimes when I get a message dialog telling me something like "1/125 withdrew" (I can't remember the exact phrase) and at the end of the turn nothing visually withdrew at all. What happened then? [&:]

Great information by the way, thank you very much! [&o] The players, modders, and posters have made a great game even better! [&o] [8D]

[Fred98]

Sometimes in combat we get a message that a unit is withdrawing but it does not do so. Terrain and enemy ZOC should have had no effect and this point remains a mystery

-
 

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Sometimes the artillery units won't let me select them......

To select 2 artilley units I suspect they both need to be under the same commanding HQ but this is not yet confirmed in my experiments.

To select any 1 arty unit, I suspect they need to be under the same command as the ground troops they are assisting. This too is not yet confirmed. It would explain why they cannot be selected.

-

Yeah, when I click the one artillery that won't let me select it, the message at the top says something to the effect that the unit is not associated with it. My question then would be why does it show in the dialog then? It should not be shown if it can't be used.

EDIT:
I went back into that part of the game and the sentence says "15 Art is not in Contact with the other Attackers." That's why, unit lost contact for some reason which brings up another question: my artillery is close to the HQ but lost it's contact. What are the possible reasons I'm not seeing here?

[Fred98]

In only noticed those messages last night!   They have useful info. Peole should watch out for them.
 
You make a good point.
 
Perhaps you can select the arty without selecting the ground units.  ie the ground units remain in their current posture and are not chanegd to Withdrawal posture.
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[LarryP]

I have tried every combo I can think of. Select the units and not the artillery. Select the artillery and not the units. Select both. I have not seen much difference in the outcome. I have a game saved there where I can test this at. [:D]

[Obsolete]

•Any unit that withdraws will switch to Assault posture.

Technically, there is no such ASSAULT posture. I think you mean ATTACK posture

BTW, Withdrawl also takes 1 less hit when delivered, but also will deliver 1 less hit to your opponents as well IIRC.

BTW, I've mentioned it a few times already elsewhere. When you switch to withdrawl, this doesn't mean it's always going to work. That's because you must pass quality checks, etc. There is an option in the GUI to SHOW ROLLS, which may give you a bit more insight into what's happened under the hood.

[Fred98]

Ooops!  typo by me.
 
Page 78: After withdrawal checks have been made, the unit is given movement points to make the withdrawal.  The points are from 3 - 15
 
I can see that a ZOC or terrain might impede the move.  But sometimes these are not present and withdrawal does not take place. Its a mystery.
 
Example: A unit in Defend mode and the enemy Assaults. We receive a message that the defender is to withdraw but it doesn't.
 
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[Obsolete]

On a given day, I would estimate most units which are set to withdraw are going to fail, so I'm not surprised there. There are quite a lot of factors which come into place for this, even the unit QUALITY values.