New Wargamer Friendly?

[lujab2004]

Hi guys. I thought this game looked interesting but I was wondering how friendly it is to new players. Is the documentation helpful. I am not wanting something easy, just something possible to learn, improve at, etc.. I am sick of paying 60 bucks for x-box games that last a weekend. Wanted to take the plunge and learn a wargame. I was looking at this and War in the Pacific. I have played GG World at War. It was fun but a bit simplistic. Any suggestions?

[saygame]

Buy it! Worth every penny and then some. But be advised. Your next two months will not be your own! [:D]

[davbaker]

Very easy to learn the basics.
You can jump right in and start clicking and attacking in a few minutes.

A lifetime to learn and master the intricacies.
Lots of stuff to get your teeth into, but not absolutely necessary to enjoy the game.

Some good short scenarios to learn the basics (the 'Road to's') before you take the plunge with the Grand Campaign.

Best Wargame I've bought to date.

[Lieste]

Monster games don't strike me as very 'new wargamer' friendly... I don't think there is a demo for it so unfortunately you can't try it before you buy.

I'd try a few other demos of other systems, and then ask again with your opinion of the few you have tried.

I have a soft spot for the Panther system, with pauseable-continuous-time/fine-grain operational wargaming, but find these large unit count, large turn length systems a bit ~ too much clicking and waiting, with arbritary limits on placement and movement and fighting that I just find break my 'suspension of disbelief'. Other people really like them though, as there is a puzzle/chess like element of problem-solving.

[Joel Billings]

If you want a turn based game, and you think you can enjoy playing smaller scenarios until you've learned some of the basics, then this game could be for you. If you expect to buy the game and load up the Campaign expecting to jump in and not be overwhelmed, you'll probably be disappointed. Since the game comes with many short scenarios (good, balanced ones IMHO) that give you direct experience at what you'll be doing in the longer campaign, they should get you started having fun right away. Of course I'm biased, so better to listen to other purchasers of the game.

[Mynok]

I have offered this to others and will do so again: if you promise to give the game a real try, I'll buy it for you, no obligations. If you like it, just repay me and you have procured a new source of endless entertainment. If not, no worries. I'm 100% confident in the ability of this game to entertain, so it really isn't a big risk for me. Those I've done this for have always paid for the game so far.

PM me if you want a shot at it.

[Tarhunnas]

WITE is not a simple game, but it is definitely possible to learn. MMHO it is the best computer game covering the entire Eastern Front published to date. I bought it in december and I have played nothing else since. It has given me much enjoyment and very good money for my 60 bucks! That said, it might not be a game for everyone, there is a tremendous amount of detail under the hood, but it is possible to let the computer handle most of the things you don't want to micromanage.

If you are interested in the subject and like complex wargames, it is a very good game!

Edit: The documentation is helpful, but the tips here in the forum and in the Wiki are far more useful. And there is a friendly community here that can help you along. Have a look in the war room or read some of the AARs, if you haven't already.

[tigercub]

X-Box in the same post as this wargame...hmmm well its a upgrade. [:D] 

[Panama]

You'll be better served reading reviews in places other than the game companies forums. Here you will find fans of the game and find few unbiased opinions. If they tell you it's the best game ever run away fast.

[morvael]

Check http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/author/bruce-geryk/

Start with the first one on the bottom of the page ("War in the East: Excuse me, which train goes to Voroshilovgrad?") and read on through 14 more. This was what sold me the game, although hex and counter wargames (computer or not) are my hobby for 20 years, so we probably have different experience.

[henri51]

If you are a new wargamer, this is not the idea place to start. I would recommend starting with Advanced Tactics Gold (also sold by Matrix), which is MUCH more newbie-friendly. Then you can try this game later.

Henri

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Hi guys. I thought this game looked interesting but I was wondering how friendly it is to new players. Is the documentation helpful. I am not wanting something easy, just something possible to learn, improve at, etc.. I am sick of paying 60 bucks for x-box games that last a weekend. Wanted to take the plunge and learn a wargame. I was looking at this and War in the Pacific. I have played GG World at War. It was fun but a bit simplistic. Any suggestions?

You've entered a forum for a game where the majority of the players are "grognards" and military history buffs.

WITE and WITPAE are very intensive games which require some degree of micromanagement to get the best out of the game.

Think of WITE's 1941 Grand Campaign that's IIRC 225 turns, a turn a day makes the game last a looong time.

WITPAE's 4 year GC and one day turns means you could be playing for 4 years PBEM.

Even in singleplayer these games are difficult to play quickly. Plus the instant gratification just isn't there in WITPAE. It's available in WITE, but only after you have shoved counters for hours.

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I have offered this to others and will do so again: if you promise to give the game a real try, I'll buy it for you, no obligations. If you like it, just repay me and you have procured a new source of endless entertainment. If not, no worries. I'm 100% confident in the ability of this game to entertain, so it really isn't a big risk for me. Those I've done this for have always paid for the game so far.

PM me if you want a shot at it.

lujab2004

lujab2004, Mynok's offer is one you should not pass on. The game is fantastic, and you will happily repay Mynok.

[lujab2004]

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.

For the price of WitE you can buy them both. [:D]

But seriously, WitE is a good game and the design team is top notch so if you can afford the tag it's worth it.

I can't comment on TOAW because it's one of my favorite games. Biased and all that. There are a lot of scenarios. There are some TOAW haters here so watch out for their opines.

[henri51]

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.

Advanced tactics is (as they say) a game that is easy to learn and difficult to master.You can start with some of the older scenarios from the original AT, where oil and materials do not figure, and you can get a feeling for a large WW2 scenario by playing one of the WaW scenarios (the ones for AT Gold that have oil are human-only).

WiTE is a classic game, but along with WitP-AE is by far the most complex wargame you can buy. You can probably count on one hand the people who have mastered all aspects of the game. For example, I have not yet even a minimum understanding of managing the air war (you can leave it to the AI), and consider some of the mechanics of the game just a bit more complex than Quantum field theory...

Henri

[Skanvak]

Considering your past experience, WITP is not for you and WITE might still be a way too steep a learning curve.

I will rather go for the decisive battle of world war II (Kharkov, Accross the dnepr...) of course they are shorts scenarios but they are good for learning the basic of wargame. You have battlefild Academy that is nice in my opinion if you want to try tactical game.

How much I like WITE there is a risk that you are overhelmed with detail you don't realise the use (thought you can ignore some of them).

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.

I like OAW, it is a good step before going to Wite as the battle system use a similar philosophy without too much details. The impulse system is a bit special (you plan attack that take a portion of the turn, then you can move again and attack according to time left). I like it for small scenario, some don't. The good point is that there are LOTS of scenarios.

I don't have enough experience of advance tactics though it is good for what I have played of it. I would say more complex than OAW but closer in philosophy to WITE so good. They have production and multiplayer (even for one side) which is a plus. This is a moddable game so you will find scenario for it. I will go with Henri51 opinion by the way.

[saintsup]

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

I will rather go for the decisive battle of world war II (Kharkov, Accross the dnepr...) of course they are shorts scenarios but they are good for learning the basic of wargame.

These are good semi-difficult and classical wargames to start. Ardennes and Normandy of the same collection are good too.

[lujab2004]

So Battles in Normandy is a good starting place. I am a HUGE D-Day buff so it is definately a good fit in that respect. Is it a good place to start out as far as wargaming as a hobby is concerned? I am trying to base my purchase on the concept of "The best wargame is the one you will play" but I want something that will allow me to learn and move on to more complex games. I do feel that WITP and WITE might be a bit much at this point.

[Templer_12]

War is costly, stressful hypocritical, bloody, brutal, long, loud, dirty ...

If you want to play a war game, then this game should simulate it all.

Beginner friendly?
It's like anything else in the world if you like War Gary Grigsby's in the East, if you fall in love, if your interests and ambitions are aroused - then you will learn easy (you should know as a teacher!) and it could bring you much priceless joy.

If you fall in Gary Grigsby's War in the East, you will teach your students to cut the hair, to button up the uniform and stand in ranks!

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that you will like the game.
But I would say in my experience, that only 1 of about 40 buyers regret the purchase.

Most games, matrix offers are more than just games.
You become a member of a great, a helpful and friendly community. [:)]

The community will help you 24/7 - and honestly - you will need this help! [;)]