1.04.10 Fulkerson vs KLilly

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the breakthrough area in T52. I have no idea what to do now except maybe accept the fact of the gap in my lines and maybe pull
back the northern troops to the northeast and the southern troops to the southeast. What's the opinion of the experts out there?

[TulliusDetritus]

Larry I'm no expert at all, but you are putting all the eggs in one basket [:)] If he manages to form these pockets you are doomed [:(]

You should (in my humble opinion):

- rely on depth
- have LOTS of strategic reserves
- concentrate your forces to face the main enemy thrust (aka Panzers); his infantry alone is 100% harmless, they will only push you: this means you MUST divert forces from these non vital places to really VITAL places (these diverted forces would be your strategic reserves) [:)]

I hope it is not too late [8D]

[Klydon]

Looks like Larry is in a tough spot here.

I think even tho he is still learning the game (many people still are) one of the things is to try to employ some common sense and not get too fancy.

First, take a look at the screen shot below. Larry has NW and part of Northern front guarding against the Finns and is up to 4 deep in defense against Finish regiments. That is a lot of wasted manpower and units in a non critical sector of the front. You can probably go down to 1 division per hex there and if he wants to launch an "offensive" with the Finns, then let him go for it. He isn't getting anyplace soon in that terrain and with that force. You could send a reserve army back up there after the fact and smack him around.

In fact, the entire Northern Front could be moved out. There simply is very little there for either side. Certainly I would look to move out offensive units like your artillery divisions, etc if you are not looking to attack here.

I will try to add some more thoughts later.

[M60A3TTS]

Larry,

What is the state of the reserve armies that you said you would build?
Where are the shock armies, who commands them, and what is in them?
How many tank, rifle, and cavalry corps are built?

If this is sensitive info that you don't want KLilly to see in the near future, feel free to PM me with the info, or just ask your opponent to lay off the thread for a while.

[Pawlock]

Im also no expert , but I can offer observations. Larry , you rely too heavily on a carpet defence with the front rank stacked up to the eyballs. You need to use a combination of all styles, depending on situations. If you are gonna have a linear front line at least checkerboard behind it to at least 5-6 hexes back, more if he has fresh panzers.

Without some kind of checkerboarding in danger sectors you open yourself up to these deep thrusts and encirclments.

You also need those reserve armies to rail straight to trouble spots. Always rail if you have the capacity as it will save fatigue and your troops will be stronger.

As for your predicament it looks grim ,but if you look there could be a possibilty of isolating his lead panzers through that gap. You have cavalry near, how far will they go? Also notice rail line at edge of his hexes, maybe you could rail in some cavary or mobile unit see if you can bridge that gap? This will not stop him, but slow him down a bit , also tar baby his spearhead to death. Its ball about buying time to try to get unis out. Is there any chance you can counter that panzer , the one next to your armour?

[Klydon]

Had some company come over a bit early, so was a bit rushed. The NW front can probably cover for the North front, freeing that up to shift down, etc.

For this screen shot, I would point out the Italian and Rumanian units on the south side (orange line). They generally suck, especially if they are not dug in. If you want to take some risk, you can probably do some deliberate attacks down there and see about pinching the bulge out or at least slowing down how many units he can funnel through the break through. Might be a bit tough to see, but he has a motorized division all by itself surrounded on 4 sides by Russian units. Should absolutely stack some units there and launch a deliberate attack and then take the hex with a unit. Will give you at least 1 more hex he has to take in order to close the noose and also inflict some damage on his motorized units.

The light blue brushed areas represent areas you need to look at flipping as many of those hexes back to your control and hug him as tight as you can to make it tougher for him to move additional troops and also make his spearhead do a lot of work to get anyplace. His logistics are not that hot with a drive like that and it won't take a lot to run them out of supplies. You need to keep moving troops out as you can to the NE to save as much as you can. The Germans can't beat you if they don't destroy your units. Troop and tank losses to you don't really matter, it is losing the counters that matter.

From what I have seen of your AAR's, just about everything is up in the line. You can't do that as a Russian and expect to survive IMO. These can start being formed in 1941, especially in the fall. They are an absolute must in 1942 where the Germans are still relatively strong and will cause issues. When the Germans get committed in a large way to some place, you can send in your reserves to help slow down the Germans and also help counter attack. Reserves are generally a combination of some of your best troops under your best leaders (fire brigade) along with units you are refitting (new units you may have built and newly assembled tank corps for example that are not yet ready for combat). 1942 is sort of like fishing with light tackle and having a big fish on the end of the line. The Germans are going to run wild at times and you have to run the drag, but eventually you can let the Germans wear themselves out and then reel them in.

[randallw]

From this campaign, and the earlier one, it seems that Larry has deployed his ants ( brigades ) as part of a non-spaced carpet, but without a buildup behind the carpet ( the carpet is supposed to buy time for the buildup ).

It sort of looks like a two step plan without a second step; it's just one step that goes on until the line breaks then the fire drill happens.

[Tarhunnas]

Its hard to say Larry, but I think you need to think about your defensive techniques. It is hard to say from the screenshots as they usually don't show CVs, but I suspect that your rear lines are too weak. Also, you would want a spaced line of checkerboard behind that with at least CV2 units in forts. You have had lots of time for digging, so that should have been in place.

As others have pointed out, you need to look at what the enemy is doing and where his panzers are. It is striking that the enemy breakthrough was at the point of your line that looks thinnest (2-3 units) and there was no inkling of a panzer concentration in the screenshot before that. You have apparently been the victim of total operational surprise.

I would advocate more recon to figure out where the enemy concentrations are, and a more proactive defense, moving reserves to the areas behind likely breakthroughs.

And when a breakthrough happens, you want to have the reserves there to deal with it, not back at the front being pocketed.

[76mm]

I totally agree with Tarhunnas--the first thing I do every turn as Sov is the "Panzer count": where are they, and in what quantities?

Then various reserves are shifted to be in front of them; some reserves form part of the carpet, some reserves are "checkerboard corps" which I shift around to form a checkerboard behind threatened sectors, and finally, some powerful forces as a strike reserve.

Even with this setup defending against panzers is not easy, you really have to guess right about the timning, direction, and intensity of attacks, because parts of your line will be vulnerable if he shifts forces around quickly.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
What is the state of the reserve armies that you said you would build?

The reserve armies are still in the process of being built. I'm attaching a picture of their position, the far east edge of the map. As you can see they aren't quite ready for prime time but I guess I need to put them into action right about now anyway.

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Where are the shock armies, who commands them, and what is in them?

The 1st and 2nd Shock army groups are in the Northwest Front holding positions on the front line. The 3rd and 4th Shock armies are not filled out with divisions yet. I'm not sure who commands them but I can look it up for you.

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
How many tank, rifle, and cavalry corps are built?

I'm not sure but I do remember building about 3 tank corps somewhere in the center of the map.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines in T53 before any Soviet movement:

[larryfulkerson]

And here's the OOB:

[larryfulkerson]

And here's the ground losses

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Air losses so far:

[larryfulkerson]

And here's the state of Soviet production:

[larryfulkerson]

I'd like to thank everybody for their advice first of all.  Next I guess I need to admit that WITE may not be my best game right now.  Maybe I should drop back to something a little less fast paced and sedate like WITP-AE ( I just bought it about two weeks ago and have been messing around with it off and on ).

[Q-Ball]

I enjoyed your AARs, so keep at it.

I have never heard anyone say "I think I'll take a break and play something simpler, like WITP-AE"

I am a veteran WITP-AE player, and that game is way more complicated. It's only slow because it takes so long.....you can still lose the war in a turn, but really only one way: Getting your CVs sunk

I know some here have thought WITE is very complex, and it is, but WITP-AE is more complex. It took me YEARS to learn that engine to a basic level, and I still don't know all the tricks.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I have never heard anyone say "I think I'll take a break and play something simpler, like WITP-AE"

I'm pretty sure I didn't say simpler......I think I said something like slower or less fast paced. Just after I bought WITP-AE I looked through the manual and my first impression of it was that it was a parody of a wargame......something that might be produced by the Saturday Night Live group. It's too complex, almost unplayable. I'm guessing that the only people that enjoy AE are those kinds of guys that don't have anything else to do with their time. Like me......retired and / or disabled and have nothing but time on their hands. I get the impression that AE is mostly moving logistics around the map with the occasional combat as a rarity. Almost boring.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the pocket after the Soviets get a chance to move:

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Just after I bought WITP-AE I looked through the manual and my first impression of it was that it was a parody of a wargame......something that might be produced by the Saturday Night Live group. It's too complex, almost unplayable. [...] I get the impression that AE is mostly moving logistics around the map with the occasional combat as a rarity. Almost boring.

LOL

It's by far my prefered wargame. I play it since 2004 and I'm pretty certain I will play it for a very loooog time [:)] Logistics is what professionals do. Amateurs merely fight. Actually, you have to move everything to the correct place and then you might prevail [:)]

Knowing the Pacific War helps. But if someone never heard about this conflict, yes, the game is kafkaesque: every SINGLE ship is in the game. You even have some Aussie infantry Companies [:D]